Sunday, February 4, 2007

Sexism, Ageism, Misogyny: Alive and Well in America

I was told that whistling wasn't ladylike, but I knew even then that women were simply not supposed to be that happy. ~Anonymous, quoted in Kindling the Spirit by Lois P. Frankel

Women are not forgiven for aging. ~ Jane Fonda

Is your remarkably sexist drivel intentional, or just some horrible mistake? ~ Lisa Simpson (Yeardley Smith)

One of the fascinating things about Clay Aiken is the way that he generates so much interest. Love him or hate him, he has captured the attention of the public eye. Not only that, but the fact is that a variety of hotpoint social and cultural issues seem to be played out both in people's responses to him and to each other. It's one reason why there is such a wealth of material for this blog. Previous blogs have looked at issues of journalistic integrity, cyberbullying, and sexuality. Today I want to talk a little bit about sexism/misogyny and ageism.

If there is one thing the typical Clay Aiken "hater" hates more than Aiken himself, it is his fans. On any given day, the vitriolic language flows from the blogs and messageboards they frequent. Their words are couched in bullying and insults based on gender, age, and weight (feminist issues all) ...painting the fandom with a broad and convenient (though often innacurate) brush. It is true that there are many women over 30 in his fanbase -- he attracts all ages of fans from the child to the grandmother. But it is the older fans who are attacked and cruelly ridiculed. The irony, of course, is that so many of these self-professed haters belong to that exact same demographic which they so freely disparage. Self-loathing perhaps? A refusal to admit that they are what they have become--or in some cases have inevitably yet to be? The "obsessed with hatred" mocking the "obsessed with love?"

Those fans are referred to by these anti-fans as (and I quote): "fat old hags," "a bunch of middle-aged, wannabe teenagers, " dried up old twats," " like cockroaches that can't bear to have the light shined in their direction," " bitter older women," " crazy old lady fans ," ClayMate twats," "old fatfroglookingmate ," and so forth. The litany of similar expressions drone on through much of their writing. As some of the posters on one of the hate blogs put it,

If I see some fat sloppy looking middle aged or old woman I think to myself "could she be a mat?""
all those senior citizens so in love with him is hilarious.

So it is hilarious and mockable that women over 30-40 years old are engaged by a singer and his music? What does this say about the box in which we place middle age and older women? What does it say about the skewed and sexist belief systems that those putting them in that box internalize?

And then there is this kind of blanket misconception:

I think they fit the same profile as the middle aged ignorant women who fell for Jim Bakkers fraud in the 80s and tune in TV preachers like Benny Hinn every night and send them their money like sheep. I think lonely old women are who most Claymates are and that part of society should be exposed for it. Maybe it will help them recognize their own faults and find a better way for them to spend their time and energy

And what better way for them to spend their time and energy would there be? I wouldn't be surprised that the answer would be staying home, "taking care of their families," i.e., fulfilling the sexist and stereotypical domestic role society has created for women in this age group.

Of course the reality is that these women DO take care of their families (assuming they are married, and not all are, or have children), but they also like to enjoy themselves. One does not supplant the other, though that concept is apparently difficult for some to realize. Are middle aged women ONLY allowed to function within the parameters of domesticity? How DARE they feel joy and laughter and pleasure and companionship with other women with whom they share their affection? Don't they know they're supposed to be chained to the kitchen? If they feel sexually attracted to, or feel affection for, or admire a popular figure, is that a violation of what is permissable for women past their 30s in our society? Is that not a double standard, for certainly one would not have to go far to find men the same age who find a younger female attractive. Or is it unacceptable only if these women enjoy someone that doesn't meet the approval of those who deem themselves to be the arbiters of what is "cool" and acceptable?

As also indicated in the last quote, there is a misconception of who a middle aged and older woman is. Their assumption is that she must be right wing, fundamentalist Christian, and homophobic, as well as miserable, fat, and lonely, to have become a fan of Aiken. These assumptions are, of course, wrong, and are nothing more than cheap shots, attempted intimidation, and cyberbullying (see previous blogs).

All of the bullying and hurtful, ugly language and attack directed towards the women who call themselves fans of Aiken have the intended effect of dehumanizing, hurting, and devaluing these women and their lives. They also serve to negate the reputation, credibility, and worth of that fanbase. The fans are thus easily ridiculed, easily dismissed, and easily used as an excuse for mocking Aiken. (Clever scheme if one had a goal of lessening the impact of a sizable fandom.)
The public's (or media's) perception of the fans is further worsened by the "haters" who have gotten used to impersonating the fans online and in emails with their over the top characterizations.

Unfortunately, pejorative stereotypes are not used only by the obsessed hater but are also given free rein in such public forms of expression as jounalism (presumably responsible and undoubtedly powerful), both written and online. Virtually every concert review, for example is less about the concert and more about the fans who attend it...the amazement that there are women there in their 40s and 50s and beyond having a good time. That these women aren't being quiet and subservient and confined to the domestic hearth, acting like their own bias dictates they should.
Their focus tends to be on middle aged women and teens -- two female demographics who happen to be those that society tends to disempower. Even music reviews have to include the subtle (or not so subtle) dig at the women who enjoy the music. They think it is somehow OK to marginalize and make fun of them.

Online blog sites reduce the fans to


a "Clay Mate" (aka post-menopausal fag hag from the 'burbs)"


a delusional cult of lonely, middle-aged hausfraus.

It is hard not to mistake the underlying current of hostility and misogyny, as well as ageism, in words such as these. And this is socially acceptable in our society?

Is it that once an individual reaches the 30s they are no longer expected to go out and have a good time? That once they become mothers or, God forbid, grandmothers, they are no longer to feel any joy and comradery beyond the family or have a hobby that takes them outside the home? Is it all about superficial appearance...if you don't "look" like our artifical image of an "attractive" woman, your feelings are null and void? Is it just women of a certain age and weight who are not expected to feel such things as passion, humor, and joy? How shallow (and unrealistic).

How many concert reviewers, for example, comment on the large numbers of middle aged and gray haired men at a Stones concert and ridicule them? At McCartney? How about the men who paint themselves and dress outlandishly for sporting events? But when women do the same thing (well, not even as extreme as the men at those sporting events .. the Superbowl should show us a few of those ..) they are ridiculed, mocked, and given the very strong social message to stay in their place. Men can follow their favorite teams and travel to out of town games and that's fine. Women who travel out of town for something they enjoy, like a concert or a fan gathering, are mocked. They are further ridiculed for any expressions of support -- for their creativity and expressions of spirit. Again, if those self-appointed arbiters of "cool" don't agree, there is nothing to do but belittle and trash.

The fact is that society as a whole tends to devalue women as they approach their middle years. This is nothing new. There is a sizable cultural force that pushes these women to assume a subordinate place in our society. Of course women have always defied these stereotypes. In the 1690s they called some of them witches and hung them.

But exacerbating this public ageist misogyny is the context of a culture that, at least recently, has become more masculinized...a hawkish, militaristic, "macho" culture that values the Rambo ideal of true manhood. The feminine is not to be embraced, but is to be rejected. It is not surprising that in such a culture a man who self-admittedly has some feminine qualities would be mocked, stereotyped and dismissed. Women who attest to the appeal of such a man are derided as wrong, delusional, or crazy. To make things even worse, take a group of women who are supposed to be quiet, in the home, beyond the age of physical pleasure or the capacity to experience joy, and use them as a vehicle to express that social force that attempts to keep women (and men) within a narrow parameter of acceptable behavior, while reinforcing the male dominant culture.

Our society likes to think of itself as somehow more enlightened in terms of gender related issues than those in the past but is it really? For example, in addition to the above, it is not "politically correct" (a term which I hate) to express public heterosexism and homophobia directed towards individuals who are openly gay (see previous blogs). Take a man, however, that says he is not gay. If others, based on their own heterosexist stereotypes, have decided he is.... it is assumed he is in the closet and the public -- comics, gossip columnists, bloggers, journalists -- can feel free to express their homophobia and antipathy towards the gay population without repercussion (and this includes self-directed antipathy by those who actually self-identify as gay).

Finally, there are some stereotypes out there of what appeals to this population of women terms of culture and music ... stereotypes based on models nearly 50 years old. Well, news flash. This generation of women 40 and beyond were at the vanguard of rock and roll, women's liberation, the sexual revolution, student protest, and movements for self awareness. This is a population who not only can rock out with the best of them but who also knows how to use its voice to stand up for itself. This is not the generation of Andy Williams, Pat Boone, and easy listening, but a generation born in the music of the Stones and Janis Joplin, the Grateful Dead and Jimi Hendrix, Blondie and Kiss, Sex Pistols and Talking Heads, Deep Purple and Frank Zappa. Despite the attempts to categorize these women and stuff them into a stereotypical box, they burst free and in some cases give a collective finger to those who would marginalize them according to the fallacious images of a past generation.

So when you read the pathetic attempts at "reviews" that focus solely on the fans' demographic, when you read the bullying insults of the haters that are so grounded in misogyny and ageism, remember that those reviews and insults say more about the bigotry, cruelty, and narrow-mindedness of those doing the writing than it does those they target. It speaks to the fact that they themselves are trapped into an oppressive and outdated cultural stereotype and belief system.

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rayofhope said...

You write very well. I was sorry to reach the end because I wanted more. You have hit on a number of topics that interest me greatly.

First and foremost, I have been shocked at what I perceive to be homophobic undertones in the jokes of comics and others. Your words express my exact thoughts, “comics, gossip columnists, bloggers, journalists -- can feel free to express their homophobia and antipathy towards the gay population without repercussion”. I do not understand why they get away with such blatant, obviously biased, hate-filled comments.

When I read the words of so-called reviewers and journalists, I wonder how old they are and whether they are thinking of women who were born at the turn of the century. Who are they really writing about when they give their opinions? Is it our great, great grandmothers?

You touched on another topic that I would like to expand upon. Confession time. I don’t like the manufactured “hunks” chosen by the industry. Most of them are not interesting or good looking to me. Until now, I always thought I was the odd one; that I was different from most other girls. Now I find there are many girls and women like me. Many of the chosen ones are considered cool but it is not cool to me. Insulting others – well that is easy to do isn’t it; doesn't take much intlligence. Using vulgar language – well I know those words too as do most people; using them every 3 or 4 words is boring and has no purpose other than to show off. Yawn.

Your articles resonate with me. It is sad that there are so few legitimate journalists and even fewer of those with integrity.

Anonymous said...

So when you read the pathetic attempts at "reviews" that focus solely on the fans' demographic, when you read the bullying insults of the haters that are so grounded in misogyny and ageism, remember that those reviews and insults say more about the bigotry, cruelty, and narrow-mindedness of those doing the writing than it does those they target. It speaks to the fact that they themselves are trapped into an oppressive and outdated cultural stereotype and belief system.

I think we will outlast them. No one is taking my joy away.

Anonymous said...

Those that make the stabs at the older women are suffering from a hate complex directed at their own mothers, in my opinion. Great blog.

Anonymous said...

There is so much truth to your words. The haters can keep trying to push all of Clay Aiken's fans into that narrow little box, but they will never succeed in changing who we really are. I personally do fall into the age bracket they so despise, but far from being lonely, I have a husband, 3 sons, 2 daughters-in-law and 2 precious grandchildren, not to mention many other extended family members who are an important part of my life. As to being an unsuccessful loser, I have a masters degree, a 29-year career in education, was a finalist for Texas teacher of the year, have published 2 fiction novels, currently work full time as a school librarian and part-time as a public librarian. I've gained 30 pounds since I married at 20, but who the heck hasn't?? I know that there are many more women in this fandom who are very similar. Clay Aiken has brought an uncompromising joy into my life that has made it much richer. He has also given me hope for the future of our country because he has a strong moral compass that seems to be lacking in so many. He actually cares about everyone, regardless of age, gender, body type, sexual preference, or political and religious affiliations!!!! And the fact that he does is probably what makes him so unacceptable to those determined to bring him down.

tnmtmama said...

Love this blog! As an educated woman who grew up to awareness in the eighties, it makes me sick to see the rampent sexism still dominating our socitey. That the media is dominated by the "cool" view of people tells me that we have regressed instead of moved forward. Please keep up the good work.

Anonymous said...

I have noted the hypocrisy of that group before. One of the worst offenders is a 50+ year old balding man with a paunch who has the hots for Kelly Clarkson. And he calls the Claymates fat and ugly, lol.

oneidolwoman said...

WOW! Great analysis of what drives sexism and ageism.

There's been a decades- old backlash against the progress women have made in all areas of society. Discrimination is alive and well. Clay's middle-aged fans are truly expressing their individuality and personal freedom by choosing to enjoy an entertainer with genuine talent that spans the ages and age groups. To attempt to diminish Clay's strong willed, independent, creative and fun-loving fans, the haters spin them into "mats," a term that conjures up the direct opposite of what they actually are. If Clay's fans were "mats," they would not be Clay's fans. They would be following the "cool" and "hip" performers, in other words, "the obvious." Well, I can't speak for all women, but I'm proud to say that, since my tween years, I have never been attracted to the obvious (e.g. rayofhope's "manufactured hunks")of anything.

Again, wonderful job Knighthawk!

oneidolwoman said...

Unfortunately, you can fool most of the people most of the time. The citizens of this beloved country, especially younger women, got sold major spin over and over again: that the feminist movement of the 60s and 70s is worthy of ridicule, and that support of feminine causes is obsolete because, afterall, women have their equal rights now.

You can legislate behavior, but not attitude.

Anonymous said...

Nighthawk, you have hit the nail on the head--again. This should be a must-read for every journalist and critic.

I am a fan of Clay Aiken and I am retired after a 35 year career in education and being named a master teacher. The haters and a part of society would have me staying at home and doing what? My children are grown and on their own. I don't spend huge amounts of our budget on my fandom. Instead, I've found there is a life after work. I've found a joy in being a fan of a wonderful singer who happens to be young, but with a voice I love to listen to with the full wonderful husband and family.

Most of all I have a whole new world of friends and have had an opportunity to travel that I never thought I would have. What the haters in the world don't get is that being a Clay fan is not all about the singer alone, it is about having a life. A life that is full and rich with my new friends and things to do. A joy in letting my hair down once in awhile and laughing till tears roll down my face. You can't buy these things. You can't find them on store shelves, or on the TV. You find them where you can and for many Clay fans, these same things happen at the concerts, pre-parties or get togethers among new friends. I wouldn't trade my new life to go back to the old one for anything. I'm enjoying life instead of sitting around watching TV and knitting scarves or whatever they think I "should be doing" and I have a right to do that. The thing is, if Clay were to leave singing right now, I would still have a life with all these new friends. Clay may have been the common interest that brought us together, but it is our new friendships that keep us there. The interaction with others and the joy in friendships are so important. I refuse to live my life in a rocking chair just because they want me to. I have earned the right to retire from working and have fun!

The people over in the drug swamp seem to derive all their happiness from hating and cooking up schemes to discredit not only Clay, but his fans. Yet when you take a look there you see the leader started with a his drug of choice as his screen name and many of his followers, like sheep, chose their drug of choice as their names, thus we now have the drug swamp. Then they follow Clay's every move, not to find joy in their lives, but to find things to twist and hate on. Rarely do you read, if ever, anything about the good things said about Clay or good things he has done. Ironically, it is JP that most often defends Clay. One would think that Clay is the biggest monster in the world reading their comments. In addition, any corrections to their previously twisted stories are completely ignored, such as the BAF being cleared of all those accusations, or the lady from the Greensboro orchestra telling the true story of the boy--and that it was NOT Clay who made that decision. They ignore the fact that many of their accusations about Clay were later proved false and continue to use the same old tired stories as proof in their agenda. Then they proceed to post and talk to convince each other they are right.

Last they continue to think that Clay owes them some explanation about his personal life. Why? For what reason does he owe anyone an explanation of what he does on his own time, or in his home, or his bedroom? Everyone has a right to privacy, being a popular public figure does not deny them their basic human rights, for some reason the anti-fans have denied him just that. If they enjoy hating on someone so much, why don't they choose the real monsters in the world, like Osama, the murderers, felons, crooked potiticians, and others who people have a real reason to hate?

Anonymous said...

Your post was wonderful except this

" Ironically, it is JP that most often defends Clay. "

JP knows about as much about CA as the haters do. I for one will never ever forget what the pickle has said and done, I will never take anything he says ever as a defense of Clay. YMMV

Anonymous said...

A big "WORD" to this articulate and succinctly crafted blog and to the responses thus far.

I highly doubt that 'they' are able to comprehend half of what is written here, but if they do they will never acknowledge that it applies directly to them.

As for being a fan of Clay Aiken.......well, yes, I do fall into that 'old' category.

But, you know what? I've paid my dues and I can live my life the way I please - not the way a few narrow-minded and hateful misogynic misfits would prefer.

It took a long and difficult therapuetic process, but I've come to terms with a variety of abuses from both of my parents for most of my childhood years, commencing at the age of three.

I've raised two children to healthy adulthood alone when, after trying to make a failing marriage work for the better part of six years, I divorced their alcoholic father when I was 31 years old.

I was in the top 5% of my high school graduating class of 398 students and as a woman growing up in the late 50's/early 60's, I followed the stereotypical for the times route of getting a job, getting married, and having children.

I worked before I was married, and I've worked all these years after my divorce and no one ever gave me anything for free. I bought a home, I pay my bills, I planned and took vacations with my children when they were growing up, and I plan and take vacations either alone and/or and with my friends even now, I have a full and joyful live, doing things both alone and with friends and family, traveling overseas and across this country. And I'm still doing it on my own, leaving no one to suffer any consequences of my 'negligence' when I decide to leave town for a few days for whatever reason.

I am one of those 'old mats' who has the money, the time, the inclination, and the ability to support whomever I damn well please.

And that someone just happens to be Clay Aiken for all the reasons that have been cited long before this wonderful blog or this one particular little post in time.

I've paid my dues, I totally love and support Clay Aiken, and if anyone thinks they have a right to mock my life, my intentions, or my affiliations then I'll happily bend over and they can (as Tyra Banks so eloquently put it).........


(although at 5' 3" and 135 pounds it's not ALL that fat - so in addition to everything else they get wrong, they can't even get their stereotypical 'fat mat' image right most of the time)

Thank you, Nighthawk, for your wonderful expertise and for your articulation in expressing it.

THIS is the kind of journalism that should be at the forefront of every search engine. It sure as hell beats the bull#$%@ journalism that Clay speaks of.

nighthawk said...

I am really appreciating and enjoying reading all the comments you've posted thus far. Thank you.

Anon from about an hour ago, I apologize for not putting your post through. I understand why you'd want to reply and it's not that I don't agree, because I do, but I just don't want to go down that path at this time (but later, maybe).

We'll see what happens and I've saved your post. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Fantastic entry Nighthawk. Everyone needs to read this.

I too can be thrown in the mix of the so-called older fans I guess. I am in my 40’s but to me age is only a number. It’s how a person feels that matters. I don’t feel any different now than I did when I was in college. Yes, despite what those drug-swamp FOOLS say about Clay’s fans being uneducated, I have a college degree. Oh, I better correct that, I have 2 degrees. I work full-time and have since I graduated from college. I am a wife, a mother of 2 grown children and all my family is happy, healthy and they have never, ever been neglected in order for me to travel and see Clay Aiken.

I can say that these past 4 years have been wonderful. I’ve met women that if it weren’t for Clay, I would never have met and they wouldn’t be the best friends that I have today, even though we live in different states. I am honored and blessed to be part of a group of women locally that are as close to me as sisters are, and we never fail to laugh, cry and share our thoughts about family, current events, etc. It was again Clay that brought us together, but it’s true friendship that holds it together.

If I want to travel and spend money to see Clay, I am going to do it. My husband knows my friends, he supports me (as I support him and his sports), he likes Clay and he knows that he had never taken a backseat to Clay and he never will. The FOOLS again are wrong… I do know how to prioritize. But I’ll be damned if I’m going to have these lowlife, society-rejected women (and a few wacked out men) dictate what is right and wrong with what I do. They have no lives, therefore they despise the fact that Clay Aiken has fans that do have lives and we know how to have fun, which we are going to continue to do.

As for the media telling me what kind of music I’m “supposed” to like because I’m now in my 40’s? Yeah ok, sure. I was in High School in the 70’s, the years of sex, drugs and rock ‘n roll. I know what I like to listen to, and my musical tastes are all over the spectrum, but the one thing all my music has in common is that it is good music with singers that could actually sing (whether in a band or solo) without all the help that many of today’s artists need in the studio. When Clay captured my heart with his voice, he brought back something to many of us in the “older group” had been missing for many years… someone that could actually sing!!! So I don’t need the radio DJ’s or record labels telling me what good music is. I know what good music is and I’m an adult and can choose what I will and will not listen to. I will continue to listen to Clay Aiken, and I will support him in all his endeavors because I choose to.

The FOOLS are wasting their time, because Clay’s fans are more intelligent, more organized, more creative, and they care about things that actually matter. They do not have the lonely, desperate lives that the FOOLS do. I will venture to guess that when those FOOLS log off the computer, that is the end of their social life. But it’s not the end of our social life, not by a long shot.

We've only just begun.

Anonymous said...

And you know what? What if some of these women ARE 'old', 'fat', and 'lonely'? If they find happiness following Clay Aiken, then so the hell what? Everyone needs something in their lives that gives them joy and happiness. Who is to tell someone that loving Clay Aiken makes them pathetic and that loving the Colts or the Red Sox and having that to 'root for' doesn't? It pisses me off. I don't care if Clay's fans WERE all senior citizens who were fat and lonely, frankly, because what does it matter to these idiots if they WERE? If you don't like it, DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO THEM OR HIM! It's that simple. The fact that they can't just shows how horribly and utterly sad THEY and their LIVES are, not Clay fans. I may be over 30, and fat, and not married, but dang it, I'll be damned if I'm going to make anyone make ME feel bad for liking or doing something that makes me happy, and hurts NO ONE. I get so INFURIATED by the need to dispell the 'stereotypes' about Clay's fans. You know what? It hurts a little when people do that, because I fit in that stereotype in some ways, and it makes me feel like others think I'm nothing. Being over 30, being fat, and heck, being single does not make me worthless. I guess that's another rant for another day. We need to stop making the qualifications. No, not all Clay fans are like the describe, but some of them are. It would be nice to not make them feel bad in the process of trying to defend Clay. I have had fans make me feel ashamed that I was there even fitting a TINY bit of the stereotype. You know what? Screw that. I'm a fan of Clay Aiken, and I'm proud of it. I dont care what people think. Frankly, I don't think Clay really does either.

Anonymous said...

What the FOOLS fail to grasp is that they, too, are just like us. The object of their affection is a 20 something female. How is it any different?

The FOOLS can't see the forest for the trees...they might as well be writing the hate blogs about their obsession with this and their "idol".

It's ridiculous. "Mirror mirror on the wall, who's the most delusional of all?" That's easy: The FOOLS who play at being cool.

Jo said...

I've been thinking about this for a long time and my thought is this: if these haters take the time and the money to join the Official Fan Club to get all their information, who are the obsessed??
It's certainly not me as I haven't even joined the OFC yet this year.

As far as the name calling goes: "sticks and stones may break my bones..." I'm proud to say that I'm mature enough not to want to blatantly ruin someone's life and career. Hey, perhaps they're not the "50 somethings" we thought they were but instead are adolescents working out of the school library.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for so clearly stating the truth about sexism and ageism in our culture. Unfortunately those who hold these attitudes won't get it. They won't see these qualities in themselves. wht's really disgusting is to see women who engage in this thinking. But usually it is young men who aren't bright enough to see that they are demeaning their own mothers, sisters, future wives. How they hold these two concepts separate is beyond me, but they do. I liken it to people who hate African Americans but have African American co-workers, team mates, or class mates who they consider friends. Its bizarre.

But these guys only do this to yank our chain. Its sport to them. Its a hobby, fun for them which is why I have control of my chain. I will live my life and love whomever I want. Pffftt.

celebhith said...

Brilliant, Nighthawk, simply brilliant! And the comments in response too! Makes me a little embarassed to even write because I'm not as articulate and accomplished as these women.

I'll be 60 in April and except for the age thing, I don't think I fit "their" profile of Clay's fans (that picture to the right is less than a year old). But over and above that, like so many of these amazing people have said, so what if we ARE old, fat and ugly? So what if we love Clay? Who are we hurting? No one. Who are THEY hurting? Everyone they can. We've all paid our dues and what the hell gives these people the right to demean our choice of singer? I certainly would allow them the right to follow and buy cds from their person of choice, even if I hated that person. And I would NOT, in hating that person, EVER go to the extremes that they do to try to discredit the fans and destroy the star him/herself! These are truly sad, bitter people with major issues of their own which they are unable to confront and deal with.

Again, bravo to you for creating not only such a relevant blog, but for posting with sound and unbiased arguments. Not that they'll listen, but it's great to see someone put into words what we all are feeling.

Bless you!

Me said...

This blog is FANTASTIC. It's sad that the haters can't even be obsessed with a celebrity, but they are pathetic enough to be obsessed with FANS of a celebrity.
Their lives have dwindled down to making fun of people they don't even know. They are all middle aged losers. I'd love to see pictures of them. I bet their outsides are as ugly as their insides.

Carol said...

Brilliant blog, Nighthawk. You're correct about our so-called "enlightened" society. The ills of decades ago is still alive and well. Sexism, ageism, machoism and glorification of violence is still with us and still as harmful to both the hater and the hated as ever. Seeds of hatred that were sown at home, at school or at work are allowed/encouraged to come to full bloom on line.

The hatred we've seen exhibited so freely on-line would not be acceptable in polite why is it okay on-line?

It's not. Even if you're really really mad at your mommy, it's not okay to bash other people's mommies. To the haters I say: grow up and deal with your own real life "mommy" issues and don't forget - Hate makes people age more rapidly.

Anonymous said...

ucThe problem I see with the haters is they got into all this a little over a year ago and they just can't let it go because obsessing about Clay has become the most important thing in their lives. If they let go what would they have to do and talk about--they would be like lost souls without someone to bash. Each one should try to stay off the computer for a week, I bet they couldn't do it, but even if they were able to manage each one would miss it terribly--bashing Clay and his fans has become an addiction to each of them.
I saw some pictures of these people and it is amazing to me that they can actually put down Clay fans for how they look when many of them are in the same age range and weight category as they claim all the Clay fans are. Don't they ever look in the mirror? I didn't see one beauty in the bunch. AND, there's no inside beauty in a person who has to spend all their free time on the computer bashing other people either. I don't know why they are unable to comprehend this--maybe just because they are such losers. I know I'd much rather love than hate.

To the haters--if Clay's career is done as you say, then you should be done, too, there should be nothing left to talk about or bash.

Anonymous said...

I agree with you anon 5:58 except for one thing. They have been at it for THREE years, not just one. They just went BESERK with it for the past year or so. A lot of it started at Kelly Clarkson Express and some of the biggest haters, Director Sandy (aka Percocet? Focus? TFH?), Groucho, Shannonk, and Un4gitible started over there. Groucho of course is just plain lunatic. Director Sandy of KCE is one of the ringleaders and one of the most crazy and obsessed of them. Another place a few come from are the old Ruben boards. Woodle (mpslc?), emach, and others. It's just so bizarre that these women, some who do fit the same demographic they make fun of in Clay fans, spend so much time and energy spreading hate and trying to destroy someone. It was just a TV show, folks. It's OVER. Kelly, Ruben, and Clay are FRIENDS and are NOT in competition with each other! Sheesh.

tnmtmama said...

I just got a very good insight into the haters from author and Catholic priest Andrew Greeley. He was talking about charismatic people and the feelings they generate. I'm parapharsing this, but he said that all people feel the magnetic pull of charismatic people, but some are very afraid of it and turn to hate. Others turn to hate when they can't make the object of their desire see them and love them in return. Sound familiar?

The book is a novel, "The Bishop in the Neighborhood."

Anonymous said...

Great blog.

What I find fascinating is that those who mock "Claymates" because of their age and/or physical appearance should look in a mirror.

The KCE ringleader fits the entire description. Does she associate with and direct the activities of younger minions because she is so afraid she has nothing else in life? Does she believe she is ageless? Or slim? Just because she supports the career of a young pop singer?

And those who "follow" -- do they leave their conscience at the door when they enter the cesspool? Or, are they embarrassed by their own physical appearance so they try to deflect criticism of themselves away by focusing on others? Do they have families who love them or who they love? Would they inflict the same kind of hatred toward their mother or grandmother?
They are really pathetic people when viewed objectively.

Those women who came before and changed society to allow these ingrates the inclusionary, educational and business opportunities they enjoy are ridiculed? For what? A TV show competition? In fact, if not for the early support by the generation they now mock, the very music those who hate Clay claim to enjoy would not now exist.

Keep up the good work Nighthawk. There are many in Clay Aiken's fandom who changed the world and made it a better place than we found it. In many ways, that is why Clay is such a magnet -- there is no doubt in my mind he is here to accomplish the same purpose. We are well aware that what doesn't kill us makes us stronger. Much, much, stronger. We have proven that already.

always and forever loving clay aiken said...

tnmtmama - bingo!! Three gold stars for you.

And one middle finger up for them!

Anonymous said...

I wonder if it ever occurs to this small group of haters that Clay, Kelly, and Ruben probably sit around and laugh at them. The three of them remain friends. They are probably of like mind against this group of people - regard them with scorn, yet the haters just aren't bright enough to see it. Sheesh. I mean, they need to put themselves in Kelly,Clay, and Ruben's position. How would Kelly feel knowing that her fans are going after her friend Clay? It would embarass her. I'll bet she chose her friendship with Clay over these haters long ago. She probably wished they would just let it go.

InTheKnow said...

Well as far as the haters going after CA goes, I just emailed KC lawyers with names and addresses of the people and also told them about KCE and OC especially about Director Sandy.


OldUglyFOOLS said...

Not only do Ruben and Kelly wish the FOOLS would let it go, they also wish the FOOLS would just GO AWAY.

What a waste of breath these FOOLS are. I can't imagine what their lives must be like outside the internet. I wouldn't put it past the FOOLS to pretend to be nice people in real life and only show their true colors under the guise of anonymity.

Pathetic losers.

Anonymous said...

I would agree that there is a total lack of awareness of even some of the most basic issues on the part of the haters. Let's see. They mock people for their age, gender and weight. They mock Clay for admitting he has to take medication to cope with an anxiety condition they themselves helped to cause. Somehow they turn that into drug abuse. They mock Clay for an illness he had on tour. Again, they suggest in dire tones that he wasn't really ill, but stoned. They mock Clay for every emotion he feels other than happy-happy-smile-smile. Any glimmer of frustration or having an off day they loudly pronounce as "proof" of the fact he's a horrible person. They aim their atacks for issues which lie at the heart of person CA says he is. They scrutinize every breath he takes looking for something to make fun of and turn against him. They are the ones who paint angel wings on Clay and if he even breathes in a way that might suggest he's human, they are "shocked" and "outraged".

They get these stupid ideas and quickly convince themselves they're real and then go posting them on blogs like the fox blog in Charlotte as if they were fact. They are quite simply creating a fictitious reality that suppports their inner hatred and then convince themselves it's true.

Well, what goes around comes around and I can't wait for it to come full circle back to them. I do really like watching them running around like a bunch of frantic chickens with their heads cut off after Clay's latest blog. No more Mr. Nice Guy, and I think in RL some heads are gonna roll.

Anonymous said...

Oh, I think they are just plain stooopid.

For example there was a glitch on the ofc messageboard software that gave some people up to 20 (!) duplicate names and erased post counts and such. They've spent like two blogs worth of comments trying to analyze one poor poster, saying she's Jaymes, she's TC, whatever, blah, blah, blah. They've been working on it and now some of the problems are fixed so of course they're spinning that too. ANd they think they're so clever! Bwah!

And then there's Clay's MySpace. They are saying there are no comments approved since Jan 29, but that's not true. If they had half a brain and just weren't trying to see the worst they would notice that whoever approved them did so in reverse order, so if they go a few pages into the coments the more recent ones are there, like from Feb. But they really don't care -- they may even know. They just want to spin-spin-spin and act all agahst and gloaty.

But then again they really could be that stoopid. The other night they were convinced the Clay!!1!1 was on their site. I swear to god you could almost hear them eeee-ing and squeee-ing and they were up and posting all freekin night long. 100's of posts. As IF!! Bwah!

And then there was the fake IM story they bought hook-line-and sinker and carried over to PH within an hour.

I could go on and on, but stooopid and hateful about sums them up. Oh. And ridiculous, as the world is about to see methinks.

Anonymous said...

I heard the whole fake IM story and how JP sucked it up right along with the FOOLS of 411. THEN, they got suckered again with the whole "Clay is my friend" from one of the biggest haters out there. The FOOLS believe that, too, and when they found out they were lied to, they tried to create another reality where they weren't lied to. Talk about FOOLS.

They were suckered twice within a week. How freaking dumb are these people?

A hater,pretending to be a Clay friend, posting on a hater site and then getting pissed when she's exposed as a hater who created the story. What's even funnier is how gullible the FOOLS were about the whole thing.

I just about peed my pants laughing at the FOOLS.

Anonymous said...

Great blog! I heard about this blog by my talented neighbor and great friend Adam Gibson. He told me that it spoke the truth and indeed he was right.

Anonymous said...

Of course the haters are using poor Anna Nichole's death to twist into a smear about Clay. Like this:

Clay and Anna Nicole Smith are cut from the same cloth.
Both come from white trash backgrounds and both became laughingstock d-list celebrities.
Both suffered bouts of bloat and various scandals.
Claymates should take Anna Nicole's passing as a huge warning flare.
K | 02.08.07 - 4:24 pm | #

They are truly unbelievable and disgusting.

Anonymous said...

Me again. Here's more-

Hey stupid Claymates, Anna left Hollywood too. She lived in the Bahamas.

She was as screwed up as Clay is.
anon | 02.08.07 - 6:32 pm | #
"If I were younger . . ."

(they wonder why we talk about them being old - it's because they ARE, even they know it).

It would actually be funny if Larry King said, "So, is Clay Aiken a friend of Anna Nicole?" as in, "They must know each other since they have so much in common."
jello | 02.08.07 - 7:39 pm | #

What they have in common: physical and mental characteristics, mannerisms, habits, talent level.

Yeah they're sick and deranged.

Anonymous said...

And more! OMG, these people are sick!

Maybe in the Lifetime Movie on Anna Nicole, Clay can play her?
anon | 02.08.07 - 4:29 pm | #
Watching the "shocking" Anna Nicole news today I just kept wondering if Clay isn't headed on the same road. Sad really.

I think that might be an unspoken fear in the back of many clamats minds tonight.

Maybe this will be a wake up call for Clay and them.
anon | 02.08.07 - 9:55 pm | #
Maybe this will be a wake up call for Clay and them.
anon | | 02.08.07 - 9:55 pm | #

Anyone with undeluded eyes can see that he's been an ongoing train wreck for the last year. He's fortunate to have the $$$ to get himself the best help available. He's an idiot if he doesn't.
Percocet | 02.08.07 - 10:09 pm | #

UN-BELIEVABLE!! Do these absolute evil idiot FOOLS actually BELIEVE the shit they spout 24/7???

nighthawk said...

Whoops--I accidentally deleted/rejected some posts while putting the last batch through. Sorry about that.

Interesting and sad, but not surprising, about their twist on Anna Nicole Smith's tragedy. Everything with them has to be about Clay and how "horrible" he is. More on that later ...

There should be a new blog up tomorrow sometime.

Anonymous said...

"Anyone with undeluded eyes"

This is coming from PERCOCET? ROFLMAO!!

Time to see an eyedoctor, honey.

Anonymous said...

That Anna Nicole stuff is incredibly stupid. But let us remember who we are dealing with here. Everything somehow relates to Clay. Even the tragic death of a troubled woman. They have jumped the shark for about the thousandth time. I guess Clay is responsible for global warming,too-lol. Dim wits. I wonder what they would do if they get what they say they want, and Clay leaves the business. WTF would they talk about? Do they do anything else with their lives than hate Clay and his fans? They would probably shrivel up and die with nobody to hate? Well, they could always go after other successfil "Idols". Chris D and Carrie are doing very well. God forbid anyone besides their chosen one do well. Bloody idiots.

Jo said...

How dare they even pretend to have any caring bone in their bodies about Anna Nicole Smith! Everything they do and say is guided by hate. Talk about liars! Mind-boggling!

Truth Rules said...

Whoever you are Nighthawk, thank you.

It's sad that this group of hate filled people have to focus their hatred on a singer and his fans. What a waste of their time and energy.

Anonymous said...

You have got to be kidding?

"Watching the "shocking" Anna Nicole news today I just kept wondering if Clay isn't headed on the same road. Sad really."

My advice to this hater:
Quit wondering about Clay.

And to all the FOOLS:
This tragedy has nothing to do with Clay Aiken. Anna is in the news so stop trying to make it about Clay! You fools seem to be able jump on a bandwagon faster than the speed of light.

Anonymous said...

Funny how Perc and company consider themselves oh so clever and perceptive, yet they can't tell when someone is yanking their chains on that pathetic blog of theirs. How many times have they nearly wet their depends when they think that Clay himself might be on their stupid blog? As if Clay would be bothered with that wretched bunch of vulgar and foul-mouthed trash. I cringe everytime I imagine Clay stuck in a meet and greet with any of this group. Can you just imagine how much "in his face" they must have been? Is it any wonder he may have iced them?

nighthawk said...

I unexpectedly had to go out of town this weekend, so am just catching up. There'll be a new blog a little later in the day/eve.

nighthawk said...

Famous last words ....

Real life issues have kept me offline for the most part of the past several days. As much as I'd like to spend 24/7 online like the "haters" do, my life is just a little too active for that! ;)

Anyway, for anyone who cares about the new blog, it'll be soon, but I've given up making predictions as to precisely when ... as soon as I have the time to sit down and finish it -- it's ALMOST done.

Anonymous said...

This is the only blog that makes sense in between the opportunitist gay hustler that resembles a frog and has a blog pond filled with dirty scum, the homely clayhaters that love to blog about clay because they envy him and his fanbase, and that fat gossip queen Perez.

Jo said...

LOL, imagine that Nighthawk?! We have real lives! According to the idiots, we're always on message boards, etc. If only!

Will be waiting patiently.

Anonymous said...

From the American Idol Board - Season 2. Very applicable and interesting. (I added some white space)

"Analogy of Anti-Fan Clubs

Anti-fan and hate blogs in the US have been with us for years, but are a relatively new phenomenon which has reached a new height with the advent of Computer message board sites and blogs. American Idol added to the stream of Anti-fans with the most popular contestants having the most anti-fans.

Anti-fans and hate clubs have been prevalent in Korea (as an example) for many years with the most popular super-stars having the most anti-fans, beginning with Jang Woo Hyuk having the most and TVXQ! a close second.

In Korea a website is created for a new hot celebrity once he debuts and the haters will follow that particular celebrity to the point of stalking - tracking all movements, even joining fan clubs pretending to be fans in order to get the inside scoop to share with their anti fan groups.

Their goal is to get others to hate the popular celebrity as much as they do and some are considered not just crazy by the general populace but can be dangerous.

They don’t just spend hours or weeks of their time on a celebrity – but possibly years depicting every flaw, every mistake no matter how minor or irrelevant it is to a career - picking apart and exaggerating everything they read, see or hear about the victim of their hatred. One young star - Yoon Eun Hye suffered a lot at the hands of the anti’s and was terrified of meeting fans up close because she couldn’t tell a fan from an anti.

One man who pretended to be a fan shot her in the eye with a water pistol filled with vinegar and soy sauce, she was hospitalized and unable to open her eyes for days, as well as traumatized. Another young star was driven to suicide and another was murdered.

Most anti-fans probably won’t physically harm their victims - but within these groups are hidden the unstable - and they have been known to carry their hatred out to the point of wiping out a life. Most want to end careers, or for the object of their hatred to disappear and will stop at nothing to make it happen! In some cases anti-fans will spread their hatred to the fans of a star as well (especially in the case of fan wars).

Fans are always a positive thing for any celebrity, and are considered the norm, but some anti fans can border on a type of obsession in their unhealthy goals and their pursuit to demean the victim of their hatred in the eyes of others no matter how much time or how long it takes.

No one should ever take anti-fan clubs or hate blogs for granted. Some may be in it for fun and games, but all it takes is one unstable member of this group for it to turn deadly serious."

WOW -- does that not describe the sicko-obsessed haters or what?

Anonymous said...

WOW -- does that not describe the sicko-obsessed haters or what?

Yes, and now we know this is not a new phenomenon and that Clay and his people have probably known about this type of thing and been watching it from the outset.

Anonymous said...

It's kind of scary. I think a few of those anti Clay fans over there are bordering on psychotic and could be dangerous.

Anonymous said...

You know, I think that Clay's blog about the scandal contest was pure snark, and part of me hopes it is. If Clay got the haters to pony up $30 to play , just to come back and blog again saying that he was only blowing off steam, then he's more brilliant than I thought!