Monday, March 5, 2007

Clay or Ruben, Justin or Kelly? American Idol, Fanwars, and a Legacy of Obsession

What is it about American Idol that generates a level of obsession, of fanaticism, so intense that four years later, some of the fans (fanatics) are still obsessively loving or hating particular "idols?" Why is it that the spirit of competition generated is so intense that it even extends across seasons to include those never actually in competition with one another? Why is it that the first two seasons of the show seemed to generate the most passionate devotion or antipathy? How is it that some individuals -- "haters" or anti-fans -- feel justified in abandoning human compassion, decency, and honesty all for the the goal of crushing a person they don't know to elevate another person they don't know? How are the "fanwars" generated by the show exacerbated by the internet? How are these fanwars similar to or different from those that have preceded and followed them? To what extent did American Idol and the record label, RCA, manipulate and stimulate these fanwars and create a continuing competitive milieu? Normally, it's really OK and in fact normal to like more than one artist, and if you don't like an artist, you simply turn the station and don't listen, rather than try to destroy their life, so what's different here?

While I can't claim to have the definitive answers to any of the above questions, they are certainly worth exploring and the next 2-3 blogs will do just that.

First, though, let's look at some of the ways in which these fanwars manifested themselves amost from the very beginning.

It has now been four years since Clay Aiken's "wildcard night" performance on American Idol, yet the passionate involvement of supporters and fans, as well as detractors and anti-fans, still runs high. The interest of the media in virtually anything Aiken does is still tangible -- he continues to capture the "buzz" with very little effort. Putting his hand over Kelly Ripa's mouth was good for a week's worth of entertainment "news."

His innate talent is certainly part of it. His "geek to idol" transformation is another (though really, all that was was some new clothes, a good haircut and a set of contacts ... yet the media in particular is still fixated on that). His advocacy of charitable causes, coupled with an openly professed faith, also taps into deep emotions from both the fans who admire his efforts and values, and the anti-fans who either use those causes close to his heart as yet another avenue of attack, or who erroneously associate any kind of profession of Christianity to mean that one falls on a specific point in the political spectrum -- one quite a bit to the right of center.

A large and committed fanbase is also part of the buzz.

His American Idol fans loved him intensely. It was a fandom which was organized, internet savvy, vocal, and hungry for information. Although the vast majority of the fans displayed their love in fun, enthusiastic, and appropriate ways, a very few went over the top, elevating Aiken to a level of adulation which was probably not only uncomfortable for Aiken, but also to fellow members of the "fandom." They also gloried in his success in a way which other AI fanbases, rightly or wrongly, construed as either dismissive of their own "idol" or of "rubbing salt in the wound." It was that very small segment of Clay's fans which became the focus of the anti-fans and also of some in the media. It became, and still is, used as an excuse for the continuing anti-fan generated smear campaign directed against Aiken which has existed for nearly four years.

Add to all of that the competitive nature of the show itself, AI's further manipulation, the fact that some individuals simply didn't care for Aiken's voice or material, the fact that a larger than normal percentage of the active fans were women 30 and over (see Sexism, Ageism, andMiscogeny), fan support for other "idols," and the hot button issues generated by his faith and by questions about his sexual orientation (see Sexuality and Semantics) and you have the recipe for polarization, intensity, and a continuing hate campaign against both Aiken and his fans.

Competition between the "idols" (a loaded term to refer to the participants of the talent show) was exacerbated and manipulated from the very start when Clay and Ruben's singles and Justin Guarini's first CD were all scheduled to drop on the same day in June. The sales figure comparisons were inevitable and, as everyone knows, Aiken won that competition. This didn't sit so well with the fans of the other two, particularly when the Clayfans were so exultant at the triumph (which, as fans, was arguably normal and to be expected). It helped to breed resentment.

One of the first groups to take action was a small group within the Justin Guarini fandom... a group that seems to have been forgotten by many Clayfans. There had already been some conflict between this fan group and Kelly Clarkson fans. Now it was Aiken's turn. Clay Aiken at one point in time made a comment about Guarini's "smoothness" that could have been interpreted negatively. What followed was a near melt-down of the "That's the Clay" messageboard, due to the fact that the moderators of that board, like Sunny and AnnMarie, were die-hard Justin fans who perceived Aiken's statement as an insult. Compounding that was Clay's overwhelming success on the day that his single was released the same day as Justin's CD, and Clay's upcoming CD release parties that were being discussed (along with their association with Todd Venice--a whole other story). Leaving TTC and forming a new Justin board, they focused their anger and resentment on Clay and his fans, scapegoating them for Justin's failure to achieve the success they felt he was due. The hatred flew.

Even that far back in time, the lies began. As one poster noted at the Clackhouse messageboard:

Wed Oct 15, 2003 4:52 pm, ToffeeBrowne wrote:
Hey guys I just wanted to ask a quick question. I was just lurking on a Justin board and it seems like they are all up in arms about some radio interview that Clay supposedly did with some station in New Jersey. In this interview Clay supposedly said that Justin Guarini has only been getting by on his looks and that he looks like the 6th member of NSync. I know we don't want to bring other boards over here, but 1)I just can't believe Clay would say something like this and 2)how is it possiable that Clay did anything and there hasn't been any kind of report about it amongst the Claynation. Interestingly enough Annmarie of former TTC fame is the one who's cousin herad it and sent her a transcript of the interview. Now I know that the Justinites are sad, but to make shit up? That is just soooo tacky.

So the lying began early...making up something inflammatory and posting it on the boards as truth. Prompting such reponses as:

Clay's a third-rate, ugly, scumbag ass, who's gotten cocky enough to say something like this. He thinks he's God's gift to the music industry, and fuck anyone else.

Although no one was ever able to find the evidence that such an interview existed, and several of Justin's fans pointed that out, there were a few who used the fictitious statement as a pretext to continue their hate.

Even earlier, some of Justin's fans, along with some of Ruben's fans, had begun the practice of emailing others (media, blogs, etc.) while pretending to be over the top Clayfans.

At the Clackhouse, freethinker posted:

Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:18 am
Yesterday my guy received a forward of the full message from the Hunk of the Month woman along with a message with the forward saying Clay fans were threatening the owner of a website. Asked me for my view or explanation of it. Explained what I knew and that I suspected it was disgruntled Justin or Ruben fans. So - YES - these types of messages are getting to RCA. PATHETIC!

Which is not to say that all, or even most, of Justin's fans agreed with the competition, hatemongering, or the false emails. For example, as one fan posted at Justin's House,

cat4cj Sent: 10/17/2003 3:10 PM
Hi All,
I stated 6 months ago (on this board) that I was upset, because it seemed (to me) that a "war" of sorts was starting and fans were being forced to "choose" between Justin or Clay.
I honestly made an attempt to stay here and ignore it, but everytime something nasty would go down, I was hurt more and more by the viciousness I was witnessing. Since I liked both singers, it was easier to walk away, then to feel forced to choose.

So a small, negative, contingent of the Guarini fandom was making it uncomfortable for other Justin fans or people who were fans of both Justin and Clay.

There was a also small subset of Ruben Studdard's fanbase that became proactive in a negative way. Fresh from the heat of the competition, some of these fans appear to have been threatened by both Aiken's obvious popularity and by the fact that Aiken's first single outsold Ruben's in that previously mentioned competion manipulated by RCA/19. So they decided to do something about it.

They, too, found one of their favorite techniques to be pretending to be crazy Clayfans and then contacting DJs (who might have been inclined to play the newly released MOAM), shows like The View, or anyone else who would listen. Quite often these emails would be laden with derogatory, obscene, inflammatory, and/or racist remarks. What follows is a story that is familiar to many in Clay Aiken's online fandom, but may be unfamiliar to others.

Here is an excerpt from one Ruben messageboard conversation:

Dear Friends:
I understand that we all have a common goal in coming to this board and that is to Help Ruben by exposing Clay and his fans. We are extremely fierce in our quest, but WE CAN'T LOSE PERSPECTIVE HERE!!!!!
We are proceeding with caution and not putting ALL our eggs in one basket. We want you to write your letters, but don't waste ALL the evidence on someone less significant (DJ's).
We need to target Critics, in particular, because they are the ones who evaluate the sales of a CD. We need to emphasize the multiple CD purchases and provide them with proof.
Please, PLease, be polite and NEVER mention Ruben or being a Ruben fan. We are taking the dissapointed Clay fan angle or any other angle as long as it doesn't smell like "disgruntled, bitter Ruben fans".
I know we want to rip the elfin to pieces, but we have come too far to mess up. Good things happen to those who wait, we are patient. Continue the letter campaign, but use your discretion in writing to these people. Any indication that it is a mailing campaign and we will be doomed. So let's not get too impulsive. Okay?
You are doing an excellent job with the letters and we have accomplished a lot. Keep up the good work!!!!!
"Never underestimate the power of a Ruben Wackadoodle"
Edited by: emach1313 at: 10/17/03 12:15 am

One member of this small group of Ruben fans finally came clean, exposing the others who also congregated on a certain small board. This board used as its banner Clay Aiken's face superimposed on a sniper's target. Among the statements this whistleblower made were these:

What I am about to post here may shock some people. However, I don't think it will be any Clay Aiken fans that have ever dealt with the diehard Ruben Studdard group. I think the only fans to be shocked will be those in the Ruben Studdard camp. And they'll only be shocked because someone finally turned their back and called them out.

I won't be talking about all of his fans, just a small, select few that seem to be operating under the delusion that "nothing", and I mean nothing, can ever touch them. The few who spend all of their days on Bolt and the JRecords website, not to mention the Clay boards they frequent under various guises. The few who spend all of their time marching to the beat of Emach1300's and AngelicIsis' drums, including those two, themselves.

The point of this website? To let you know that AngelicIsis really is Jaysen Miller, and I can back that up.

Do you remember Jaysen Miller? Jaysen Miller wrote two very eloquent stories for Beavers On Idol about Clay Aiken. Two stories where he claimed to be a fan but was so turned off by the energy and devotion of the Clay fans that he felt the need to write. Each and every one of those stories were fabricated.

What followed were a series of quotes copied and pasted from that board to prove her point.

Author Comment
Giggle OP

Posts: 1285
(10/31/03 8:35 pm)

Here is my response from James Sheperd from Beavers Online. I even forgive him for his typo on my fake name. LOL

Hi Jason:

Thank you for your submission. I have reviewed it just once, but I think it is
quite suitable for publication. I enjoy seeing counter viewpoints, and your
article, plus the one you are refuting, help to support something I'm currently

I will let you know when your article is published.

Thanks again,
James Shepherd

I am sooooooooo tickled!!!!
Giggle OP

Posts: 1286
(10/31/03 8:57 pm)

Thank you friends!!!

What raleighlady needs to recognize is that she is not dealing with amateurs when she deals with Ruben fans. She'd better have her s--t TIGHT, or she'll have an emach, bone, dallasivy, black panther, mymanisclay, or an angel on her azzz!!!

High FIVE mah sistahs!!!!
Giggle OP

Posts: 1289
(10/31/03 9:27 pm)

hmmm...perhaps one of her 'detractors' should send my article to 20/20 with my permission....

Posts: 1031
(10/31/03 11:52 pm)

I'm On it, but it will add credibility if we ALL did as well!!!!! will get you the address!!!!!
Posts: 298
(10/31/03 10:10 pm)

Way to go angel. Can't wait until those stupid Claymutts read the article. What a joy it will be to read bolt.

Here's to you girl.....

But they were eventually discovered in that little charade:

Author Comment
Giggle OP

Posts: 1305
(11/3/03 8:42 am)


I need one of our regular super militants to take the blame. I prefer Bone, because of her eloquent writing style. They can't go after Johnnie because she is never on Bolt my idea is this:

Bone goes and posts on the Clay board, 'confessing' who she really is. She'll just say that she 'borrowed' my name not knowing that I (angel) had posted something in Ruben's guestbook. She'll say that she wrote the rebuttal because she has an opinion, and she'd do it again regardless of what they think. Etc. etc.

She tells them to not attack me (Angel) because it was her, and she'll say that she will post it on every board, and then she'll publicly apologize to me. Also Johnnie, you can say that you picked my name because it sounded like a 'guys' name, and you can say that you are a GUY - priceless!!!!

This will work because I have been moving ALL last week, and really didn't have time to do this, did I?

In fact, I won't go back to Bolt for a few more days....just to make it super real.

Further posts revealed more plotting with respect to how they were going to carry that out, infiltrate the Clay fanboards, and so forth.

What is unbelievable is that some of them are still involved in this kind of activity FOUR YEARS later, contacting media outlets, DJs, posting on blogsites, etc. It puts the so-called obsession of the Clay FANS to shame, since these anti-fans, or haters, clearly devote so much time and energy to their endeavors.

One has to wonder to what extent the perceptions of DJs and newspaper critics were influenced both at the onset and on into the present by these manipulating, lying, and over the top fans of other former AI contestants.

And then there are the fans of Kelly Clarkson. Just like the Clay fans or the Ruben fans or Justin's fans, most of Kelly Clarkson's fans are just normal, nice individuals. There are a few, however, who are obsessed not just with supporting their "chosen one," but also with eliminating any possible competition (even if that person is not actually "in competition" at all with Kelly). If the Pulse Music Board is any indication, then Carrie Underwood is perceived as being one of the more recent "foes," largely because of her Grammy success and because she will soon be outselling Kelly Clarkson, but Clay has also long been a target.

Unfortunately, a couple of the individuals who run one of the largest Kelly Clarkson fanboards, Kelly Clarkson Express, are among this group of obsessed fans, so they have had an influence disproportionate to their numbers.

It is at KCE that the hatred of Clay Aiken and his fans was nurtured over the years. It is at KCE that some of her fans organized themselves to go into retail stores and crack the cases on Aiken's CDs so that they would not be able to be sold. It was on KCE that hatred of Clay was promoted to the extent that one was not even allowed to type out his name on the board, asterisks being substituted for the letters as if it were a profanity. There were many impressionable teens on that board that were immersed into a board culture that promoted hatred.

This false competitiveness was enhanced when Kelly and Clay (who, incidentally, are friends) toured together and it became obvious that Clay elicited the more intense crowd response and numbers. Groucho (who was eventually banned for being too crazy even for KCE), Un4Gitible, Shully, Director Sandy -- these individuals and several more developed and spread their hatred at KCE, and continue it to this day. Groucho, blending hatred and misogyny and using any one of his many aliases, spread his own particular brand of hate on every message board and blog site and media outlet he possibly could. For four years. Others have acted similarly, but not necessarily with the single-mindedness of Groucho.

Now not everyone on the board was guilty of these actions by any means, in fact some tried to point out that the board was deteriorating in terms of its reputation and its focus on negativity. For example,

deedee 3/8/2004 5:23:00 AM
I have decided to risk the wrath of KCE because I seriously think we all need to stop the Clay fan hating or at a minimum the verbalizing of said hating.

This board has gone downhill in the last six months. I used to love coming here, but not any more. Yeah, I I will get all the comments like....well don't come or we have a right to our opinions.

You're right....I don't have to come. But guess what. I love Kelly and I come here to keep track of her and it seems like this board is just swamped with negativity and hatred lately. Way too much energy being wasted on hating. You're all have a right to your opinions.....but so do I and for once I'm gonna give it loud and clear.

I don't care if you all scream at me........this board is making a very BAD name for itself. Every hateful spiteful thing said about Clay and/or his fans is copied and repeated and we are making Kelly and this board look bad. I promise you this. I was lurking on a Clay board tonight in the hopes of seeing some good reviews about Kelly along with Clay and they were coming in....until.....someone who had been lurking here went back and reported how we were slamming Clay and Clay fans. I have to tell you, this particular Clay board is taking the high road. There are people on there that are refusing to slam us or Kelly. It won't last though if we don't get our acts together.

But of course, the louder and more prominent voices drowned her out, at least at that time.

And this was just the beginning.

To be continued in the next blog.

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tnmtmama said...

It's a long and ugly history. I think these crazies have managed to harm Clay and us, but I also know that you reap what you sow. They will pay. We may never see the retribution, but I do know it will come.

Anonymous said...

I know I will never forget being on KCE. They had a thread about Clay during the juke box tour that was over 100 pages long, literally 1000's of post ALL with such haterd . Downloading his performances only to ridicule them.

They were pissed at the reviews for the Independant tour, because Kelly wasn't getting any good ones..Clay stole the show and they hated him for that, they sent me the e-mails about how to break CD cases, call DJ's pretending to be Clay fans they would even post links to Articles about Clay with a comments section so that they could fill it with thier crap.. I tried to say something only to have Sandy the insane MOD edit my post into a hateful Clay post.

What's sad is some still do all those things.. I will never ever be a Kelly fan as it reminds me of what they did/still do.

Anonymous said...

You know her fans were bad at that tour too. they were yelling rude things at Clay while he was singing. If you watch the 20/20 story they did on Clay back in 2004 (second acts) there is a Kelly fan front and centre giving Clay the finger the entire time he was singing. ( during thr clips of the IT) It's there for everyone to see. Every music board I frequent has posts in Clay's threads from Kelly fans( pulse,promosquad.Survivor sucks etc.). Not all are bad but they sure do show themselves when they are.

Anonymous said...

What psycho stands in front of a singer and gives him the finger throughout the entire performance? If anyone ever sees that happening, call security to have that person escorted out.

It's insulting how offensive some of Kelly's fans are just because Clay is more popular. Obviously, they don't have a lot of faith in her making it on her own if they feel the need to destroy his career. I don't care if they use the excuse that it's just to get back at the fans. No, it isn't. Clay fans even supplied them with videos of Kelly during the IT tour just to show support for their girl. Did that matter? No, it didn't. When you were raised in a barn, you act like an animal.

Director Sandy is a psychotic. Perhaps she should be outed to her family so that they can see what a whacko she is and get her help. She is one seriously deranged woman. Shannonk may be bi-polar and in need of medication.

As for emach, the evil in her soul is astounding. MPSLC/Woodle is a total foul-mouthed lunatic.

Groucho is a psychopath and pathological liar. He's the RCA insider and the billionaire who just bought EZBoard. He needs to buy a clue and a straightjacket.

Anonymous said...

These nutjobs are motivated by jealousy and a need to be noticed by their respective idols.

Clay, Ruben and Kelly are friends. There is room in the industry for all of them. I don't even see why there should be a problem. Be a fan of your own idol and leave the rest alone.

Some of these people must have unhappy lives and trying to destroy someone who is so popular gives them a sense of control they might not get elsewhere and the attention they desperately crave. Some of them are just sick.

WRU said...

Jealousy and envy definately are the underlying feelings/actions which fits best.

These haters continue and think it is ok to do so especially the Canadian ones who think they can't be prosecuted. Well guess what, they can and will be prosecuted.

OneIdolWoman said...

Wow! What a blog! Thank you, Nighthawk.

My theory is that much of the negativism given voice via blogs and boards is the copycat/spawn/inevitable extension of a much older medium, Hate Radio.

Although I've been a Clay fan since the very beginning, I communicate directly with only one other Clay fan, a former co-worker. I've never frequented the boards, although I am an OFC member. Until this blog, I was unaware of all the "history." You can imagine my horror when I stumbled upon 411 late last year. I could not believe my eyes! I always wondered where the negative stuff about Clay and his fans was coming from. Boy, did I find out! Of course, I couldn't resist challenging the FOOLS and got banned.

Nighthawk, thank you for providing the perspective that enables me to understand what's been happening and why.

My fingers are crossed that Clay's Summer Tour will bring him here for (only) the third time.

Anonymous said...

"You know her fans were bad at that tour too. they were yelling rude things at Clay while he was singing. If you watch the 20/20 story they did on Clay back in 2004 (second acts) there is a Kelly fan front and centre giving Clay the finger the entire time he was singing. ( during thr clips of the IT) It's there for everyone to see."

You know, I watched this. It's during "I survived You" at the very end and it is a CELLPHONE. Please... I don't know who that "annon" person is who posted this, but lets NOT make things seem worse than they are in reality. Why exaggerate and report false info...go look for yourself

Anonymous said...

Thank you, once again, nighthawk, for a well written blog. I remember all the events you outlined all too well. Seeing just this few of the things that happened back at the beginning bought the unpleasantness swirling back. It's hard to believe that their obsession has continued for as long as it has.

Personally, I no longer care to try to figure out why these people do what they do. If I was interested in analyzing people with mental illnesses I guess I would have studied psychiatry. However, as an analysis of a situation that most people would find hard to imagine, your blog is the best.

I really hope you're getting some significant traffic to this blog, beyond the people that already know this story. I think it would serve to explain some of what's happened but also, in general, warn people about the craziness that exists out there and how the internet has helped some of these people with serious mental problems get others to follow their lead. It's upsetting that so much of it swirled around KCE where many young posters hung out (what a way to learn how to act like an adult...NOT).

What I hate is the influence it's had on me. At one time, I was a Kelly fan. Although it isn't her fault that these people chose an illegal and insane way to support her, I now cringe when I even hear her name. Maybe I thought she could have controlled it a bit with some well placed words on their website. All I know is that the normal process of just supporting music and artists one likes has been affected by their activities.

Anonymous said...

People who feel insignificant in life, do evil, hateful things. When you know who you are and you are happy, bringing down another person just isn't on your mind. It is clear that there are many insecure, unhappy people in the world and the internet has given them a place to vent, plot and destroy. It is easier today than ever before to get into someone's business and to create stories and problems. I feel for all our celebrities.
Concerning Clay, he must be a very interesting, powerful personality to have affected even people who hate him and what's really funny is, he isn't all that famous! It's amazing the attention he has created and it is generated through people who don't even know him.
The people who have done him harm with words, have helped to make him even more famous. Maybe not always in the best light, but he is being discussed. I hope he can endure. It is a hard way to live.

Anonymous said...

OneIdolWoman said...

My theory is that much of the negativism given voice via blogs and boards is the copycat/spawn/inevitable extension of a much older medium, Hate Radio.

That's a really interesting idea. Hmmmm.

Anonymous said...

I often hear about the fan wars. I was not on the boards way back when (HEE). I am truly flabbergasted. I still am utterly in awe of the hate and vile things I see on the internet
now. Maybe I would have been better off if I had never discovered this hate.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for saying that there are nice fans of Kelly out there. I used to be one. The turning point for me was a thread created to counter the hate against Clay at Kelly Clarkson Express on October 10, 2004. After a couple of days of great comments, a mod became angry and turned it into another hate bash. That signaled the end for and within a couple of months I was out of her fandom.

Today I want nothing to do with Kelly. I no longer follow her career. Imagine that. No longer a fan and not a hater nor a basher. I have to agree with the other poster about the influence the extremists had on me. I too cringe when I hear her name.

If you want a real story listen to the clips from IT during the Carolina on My Mind & Fields of Gold set in Columbus Ohio. The people yelling out in grating voices were Kelly fans trying to disrupt the set. I was sitting near by with some friends who were fans of both.

Truth Rules said...

The best way to counteract the lies and hate tactics is to shed light on them. Thank you, Nighthawk, for doing your part in making this happen. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

Anonymous said...

Don't forget KCE's organized call-out efforts. Whenever Clay has a song on the radio, they organize themselves to give it a bad call out response so that the stations will either drop the song or not give it very many spins. It's like an "anti-street team."

Anonymous said...

Thank you again Nighthawk for a wonderful and truthful blog.

I can understand how anyone new to the fandom of any of the mentioned idols would find this almost unbelievable because if I hadn't been here since the very, very beginning, I would be one of them. But ALL of this (and more) is the absolute truth.

I am a Clay Aiken fan completely. But I am also not one of the fans that have ever put him on a pedestal, nor do I believe he will save the world. He is a 28 year old man that happened to have captured the hearts of millions of people with his absolutely gorgeous voice. He is human. He has made mistakes and will continue to do so. We all do. So those fans of his that think he can do no wrong, can be considered OTT and I'm sure are a turn-off to other fanbases. Understandable. They even turn off other fans of Clay's.

But the majority of Clay's fans are NOT like that. They love his voice, love who he is in spite of any faults. He will be around for a very long time because of his incredible and versatile talent. They support his career because that is what a fan does. But Clay's fans do not have to, and never have gone to the lengths that the other above mentioned fanbases have - although THEY have 'pretended' to be us in order to do hateful things to cast the blame our way. They are still doing it.

I was one that was not really a fan of Kelly Clarkson because I did not watch the season of Idol that she was on, but I did go to 13 of the IT shows, and enjoyed her, cheered her on, and loved the relationship she and Clay had during it. They had fun. I did even purchase her cd and enjoyed it. I supported her.

But now, because of KCE board and some of her fans, along with their continual smearing of Clay, I wouldn't go to a free concert that Kelly was giving in my backyard. I would go on vacation just to avoid listening to her. My interest in Kelly is just no longer there. I would never do a thing to try and destroy what is important to her though. I just don't care enough about her to care one way or the other.

I know I am not alone in the way I feel either. There are many, many other fans that have left her due to the proof of the cruel, hate-filled and deceitful tactics of some of her fans.

Anonymous said...

The bitches at 411 can not be called anything other than a extremist hate cult.

FOOLS can't touch their black, hateful souls so a hate cult works for me.

Pathetic scum.

Anonymous said...

I posted earlier about the middle finger/(or cell phone). I was unsure of myself when I was questioned about it. I would hate to have accused without merit, thinking perhaps I was mistaken. I'm looking at it as I write this. I still see a middle finger..I could be wrong. A phone?..possibly but since recording devices are restricted holding one out THAT far would be rather brazen of someone. I guess since it's there to be seen people can judge for themselves.

It's not the only time I've seen or heard nasty stuff at the IT tour. Kelly's fans also openly posted about what they DID during Clay's set...and laughing with glee at how rude they were.

Shpshftr said...

A friend sent me a link to this blog. I had no idea this had all been going on. Sadly, I'm not really surprised. It's just a pitiful reflection of the world we live in, a world of hate and intolerance.

It's really sad to hear about this sort of thing because these people (Clay, Kelly, Ruben) are friends. Hating one artist because you're a fan of another doesn't make sense, and neither does hating them because of the actions of a few of their fans. I like Ruben and Kelly and I think they have great voices. Liking Clay doesn't mean I have to hate the others.

Just color me confused because I don't understand how some people think. Live and let live, I say. There's an awful lot of energy in this world being wasted on hatred and not enough being channeled in directions it should be going, like helping the world be a better place...not one where there's only one man left standing.

Sometimes I wonder if artists were better off before the internet came along.

Anonymous said...


"Sometimes I wonder if artists were better off before the internet came along."

I soo agree with this. I googled Clay's name today. the blogs that came up with his name in them were disgusting, heteful and truly had nothing to do with him, but to the tabloid/chariachture that it paints. The Internet has given people licence to lie , hurt and malign innocent people with thier words. not just celeberities. and it's world wide. No one cares about the truth and the fact that these blogs are being sited in "legitimate" (and I use the term lightly) is a sick reflection of society today.

For Clay,, no one cares about the man himself, his good works, him as a person...he's merely a name to be used as a joke to people and that's a shame. it's unfair. I am sooo ready for some kind of regulations for blogs. ans internet bloggers need to be held accountable for what the say when it's about other people..

Anonymous said...

Quote:"For Clay,, no one cares about the man himself, his good works, him as a person...he's merely a name to be used as a joke to people and that's a shame. "

Not true. Lots of people care...a lot. His fans, important people in the industry, people who have worked with him, the children and parents that benefit from his foundation. Yes, there's tons of crap out there, designed by the mentally ill, believed by the gullible, and I agree that the internet has made their insanity possible. But we can't ever fall to the belief that that's all that's out there. Lots of smart, thinking people can see through that crap and they see the real Clay Aiken.
While I agree that the internet issues really need some controls, I'd hate us to start believing that these creeps and the fictitious person they've made up is the only Clay that can be found on the internet. All of his good works, his music, his performances, and his real history can be found there too.

Anonymous said...

I rooted for Kelly during AI1. Now I'm sorry Tamyra didn't win because I think her fans would have had a lot more class. Kelly seems to attract, in part, a bunch of redneck yahoos. I've never seen a more hateful bunch of mentally ill middle-aged women than the ones who reside on KCE. They're a total embarrassment to her and they are turning off a lot of people who used to be her fans. Myself included.

Anonymous said...

Clay needs better representation. For all the money he spends on his team, I think he's been very poorly served the past year. I hope he cleans house.

Anonymous said...

Quote:"For Clay,, no one cares about the man himself, his good works, him as a person...he's merely a name to be used as a joke to people and that's a shame. "

I don't agree with this at all. The majority of those that use his name as a joke are all the same kind of people. The garbage rags (tabloids), the garbage sites (PH, Page Six, 411, OC, Rick Campbell (Groucho) etc.), Kathy Griffin, Conan O'Brien (both are pond scum). They are not legitimate sources of anything. They are all vile lowlifes.

Clay has maintained the support of many big name supporters, and I know he has gained others as well. We just don't hear about them all over the internet because the "Hate Cult" would not want that information to be known because it messes up their plans.

The head Druggie, Percocet, was stupid enough to even post a reply from the Presidents Committee showing that Clay was an important and valued member of the committee. Again, the head Druggie and her hate cult made themselves look like fools.

Clay has always had the best support on his side. The truth! Nothing those people can do will take that away from him. They can continue to lie all they want because that is all they know.

Those that know Clay, personally and professionally, know the truth as well, and his career is just fine. He is fine. He is happy and he is STILL not giving any of the "hate cult" any of his attention. They continue to say that he reads their blog. Well I am here to say that I know for a fact that he has NEVER looked at that blog, nor did he ever look at 'scumbags' blog either. That is a FACT!!!

The only people that are jokes in this whole mess are the above mentioned people (the Hate Cult) and the fools that want to believe the likes of those people.

And they are jokes... to those that matter.

rayofhope said...

Kelly was my AI1 choice. I liked her but did not join any of her message boards. After Clay's season, I read Kelly's threads on Clay's boards. Surprisingly fans of both Clay and Kelly talked about being banned from KCE for standing up for Clay. Some even admitted to having a preference for Kelly over Clay but they loved Clay too. They were banned simply for saying they liked Clay and for not backing down. I've often wondered what happened to them.

Bashing is not permitted on the main Clay fan boards. There are comments criticizing performances or style of other artists etc. but fans even make similar comments about Clay. I have heard about a couple of small boards with Clay fans that are over the top even one started in response to KCE. However I would never be a member of a board that trashed and lied about another artist. It is a matter of integrity.

Extremist hate cults (like the cultists who follow Kelly Clarkson) are scary whatever the extreme. I would not have said this a couple of years ago but I am now for stringent internet laws. People need to take responsibility for what they post and if they post lies repeatedly call it for what it is - malice.

oneidolwoman said...

"The majority of those that use his name as a joke are all the same kind of people. The garbage rags (tabloids), the garbage sites (PH, Page Six, 411, OC, Rick Campbell (Groucho) etc.), Kathy Griffin, Conan O'Brien (both are pond scum). They are not legitimate sources of anything. They are all vile lowlifes."


Anonymous said...

Boy, so much of this is INSANE!

Some of the latest posts at the 411 Faud Squad blog. Do they not SEE are crazy they are?

This is about the idolfoums board letting some people know about the JP retraction of his story that was in the Google alerts today.

"For me this is what this whole sordid mess is all about. These vile Clamate mods at all of the Clay Aiken fansites are committing crimes against humanity with their brainwashing and cult behavior. Direct attacks a their own forums is the next and most important step to making reality the order of the day and disrupting the cult and it's minders.
anonymous | 03.07.07 - 12:44 pm | #"

and another

"I care so much because I believe Clay Aiken is a threat to the mental health of children. Everything he claims to be is a fraud and a child is incapable of fending off the unscrupulouness of people like Clay Aiken and his crazed Claymates. They truly are a scourge to humanity who need to be confronted and exposed.
anonymous | 03.07.07 - 12:59 pm | #"

I really, really hope that Clay Aiken has good security because some of these people are frighteningly insane in their irrational hatred.

Anonymous said...

Me again (anon above). They're also trying to organize people on their blog to go over on Idolforums and reveal the "truth"!!! (The truth I posted above) I think someone ought to name themselves Haldol and go over and dispense some on that blog.

Anonymous said...

Say what you will about Claymates or Clayfans or whatever, I have yet to see a hate blog about any of the other idols. No Kelly Clarkson Fraud Squad, no Ruben Studdard the Fraud blog. No hate threads on the boards. No organized campaigns to send emails to critics and bloggers or people associated with thier activities. No coordinated efforts to negatively impact their singles released to radio. No banning of peole who dare to say they like another idol too. No photoshops ridiculing Kelly or Ruben. No spreading of negative rumors into tabloids and on blogsites.

They are the ones who are crazy and vile and rabid, not the Clayfans.

whoa said...

Got your blog in a Google alert and glad I did. Whoa! That is some crazy messed up shit. Puts a lot into perspective, especially now. Thanks. I'm looking forward to reading more.

celebhith said...

My goodness!~ Maybe I have just lived in my own little world for too long. . I know people had told me that Ruben and Kelly fans were behind the hate-mongering, but I guess I didn't really believe that such a small group could do so much damage. How naive I was 4 years ago! Well, no longer. What an eye-opener your article was and I am sooo very grateful that you tell the truth so everyone will know it!

Truth Rules said...

"These vile Clamate mods at all of the Clay Aiken fansites are committing crimes against humanity with their brainwashing and cult behavior."

Like these mod posts from idolforums?

"terrific, once the damage is done, he recants"

"In March 2007, Paulus admitted in a statement in his public blog, that the Clay Aiken allegations were not true, and that he was paid to do it, saying "I have admitted that this was all a lie and that Clay and I never had sex. What's the problem. Time to move on. Clay has been a victim of a really evil scheme and I know that he is grateful for having such devoted fans who always believed in him. It's over Perc. the Claymates and Clay have both won. I hope they will forgive me for playing along with this ruse as Clay has."

"In a way I felt a little proud of him too and even a little forgiveness for JP at first but then I thought "Forget that! The only reason he told the truth was because the group he was involved with was going to discredit him!" If they would not have given him a hard time he would have continued on with this hoax. He is just a user that decided to tell the truth about Clay only when it was beneficial to him! He doesn't give a censored about Clay!

Oh &...

I say Codi Collins is one of the eight..."

"I'm moving this to General Clay.

Although it is about JP, it is also directly related to Clay because it did cause discredit to him."

"What does recant mean? "

"It means that he takes back what he said. Changes his story about the situation.

definition of recant - To make a formal retraction or disavowal of (a statement or belief to which one has previously committed oneself)."

"I'm also glad that I've never doubted Clay for a bit."
You too?! Hi 5!!!

"^ true. Anyone who would make up such a story, cannot ever be trusted to tell the whole truth.

All we know is that Clay would have not done what he said, and we knew it from the beginning."

"He lied.

He admitted it.

We always knew it. "

"I'm not really... happy about this. And not for the reason you're thinking.
I guess it just never bothered me/affected me to begin with, so it's not like I'm relieved/care. I didnt care when the rumors first came out, but I guess it's good to know it was all a lie. "

"If JP does pull something out of his hat only extremely ignorant people would believe him anyway. If certain people are going to be dumb enough to fall for his lies a second time then they deserve to be fooled and they deserve to be considered fools."


Sounds like the slugs think stating facts is brainwashing.

nighthawk said...

A quick note, because I just want to make it clear that I'm not saying that all, or even most, of Kelly, Ruben, or Justin's fans act in the ways mentioned in this blog. Just some (but unfortunately those few become the face of those fandoms for many). I'm also not saying that fanwars are the ONLY explanation for the haters and their actions (for example that's not how every hater got into the craziness). BUT .. they are important. A few of the most important players have already been mentioned. Like I said, I'll get into that more in the next blog.

Oh Crap said...

Nighthawk, you do a great service and I try very hard NOT to let the actions of a few cloud my over all judgment but it's very hard sometimes. I love Ruben to death and his idiot handful of fans have never been able to make me waver. I did not watch AI-1 so I'm not as invested in Kelly so it's more difficult for mer to separate her from the creeps; I'm more of a Kim Locke person anyway.

Truth, it's amazing what these FOOLs consider to be a "cult". After decades of filthy music, filthy moves, and the Me Me Me Syndrome someone so talented and so decent comes along and he draws us in like a magnet. We take stock in our own lives as a result and decide we can make a difference individually and make an even bigger impact as a team. That's a cult to them. They are still stuck on Me Me Me. Screw them!

Anonymous said...

"They are still stuck on Me Me Me. Screw them!"

They are also stuck on stupid.

nzclaynz said...

Nighthawk - thanks for this blog. I've been in this fandom since almost the beginning. Loved Clay and Ruben on AI; though I wanted Clay to win. When he didn't win, I went on the internet and discovered the fandom. I know that the hate started early - but even I didn't know it started with a falsehood from a fan of Justin G. Very interesting indeed.

The internet is a double-edged sword. We need to be thankful we have it, else Clay's fandom would not be as close-knit and knowledgeable as it is. TV and the internet are hugely responsible for his success so far. But it has also been an effective vehicle for those who would see him fail. And they've about done everything they can think of to do so.

I can definitely see why someone new to the fandom would have a hard time beliving all that has transpired to try and discredit Clay - but it is said that the truth can be stranger than fiction - and it's definitely true in this case. Thank you for sharing the back story so that newer fans can know the types we've been dealing with for the last four years. I'm weary of it - but I'm not ready to back down. I want to see them get what's coming to them and I know that in time, it will happen.

"Anti-fan". WTF? Why would anyone waste their time endeavouring to be one of those? They say it's fun to rag on Clay and us - but what a warped kind of fun it is. I love Clay, but I like Ruben and Kelly too. But even if I didn't, I certainly wouldn't have time to spend being an "anti-fan" of either. It'd be a "WAAAAA-ste of my time."

rayofhope said...

Recently I read some copied hater blogs. My first time reading them. Those people are looney toons for sure. My opinion is that they are completely obsessed with Clay and Clay's fans. Apparently when not blogging they are reading Clay's fan boards and watching videos of Clay. And when they blog, they often quote fans. lol. That is all the time I will spend reading their blogs. BORING! I have way too many things to do in real life. I would be willing to bet that as a fan I spend SIGNIFICANTLY less time following his career than they do.

Anonymous said...

"Those people are looney toons for sure. My opinion is that they are completely obsessed with Clay and Clay's fans."

Exactly. Not only that but they are pathetically STUPID! AND humorless. AND find a way to twist every. single. little. thing. to be a slam against Clay and the fans.

Right now they are so lame -- they keep saying the blog wasn't written by Clay and that it doesn't sound like him. Well I have met Clay a couple of times and that blog sounds EXACTLY like him! It just doesn't sound like the fictitious Clay-character they've created and based all their crap around.

But they are nothing if not predictable in their stupidity. Director Sandy/Percocet and all the rest of the KCEers and Rubenites and OCers over there at 411 are busy spinning as I type and I can totally predict how they will warp the blog into something that fits their agenda.

Anonymous said...

You know what I think it is for some? I think they've never gotten over the competition. They are stupid and gullible enough that they got sucked into American Idol's hype in that first season and now every person with talent who comes out of that show is seen as competition and a danger to their Queen Kelly. Since they feel it's a competition (which it's not anymore) they feel justified in lying, trying to undermine, planting false stories, attacking, smearing, or whatever it takes to ensure their "idol" wins. They almost veiw it like a game, and the humanity of the people they target is beyond their comprehension. They don't see the insanity of it.

Now Carrie has joined Clay in the crosshairs, and I'm a fan of Carrie's. Not all the Kelly fans do this, but it pretty much comes out of KCE, which deservedly is getting, or already has, the reputation of being the place where all the evil-minded psychos hang out. I hope Kelly knows about them.

Anonymous said...

It just doesn't sound like the fictitious Clay-character they've created and based all their crap around.

That's it. No depression, No career fears, hanging with the big wigs. It totally kills them. What do they say is the best revenge? Clay and the fans are getting that revenge in spades. I love it.

Anonymous said...

Nighthawk is my comments not coming through? I have posted several comments but never see any of them posted.

Am I doing something wrong?

nighthawk said...

Could be anon, I don't know. Obviously that last one worked.

Some comments I don't let through, though. Not sure if yours are some of those or not. There are a few kinds of things I won't publish, not necessarily because they're bad, but because I don't want them taking the blog offtrack or because they name some kinds of specific things I feel it's best not to mention at this point in time.

It's also possible I could have missed them .. I'm away a lot and sometimes they pile up.

nighthawk said...

PS - by "specific things" I'm mostly referring to names/dates/circumstances associated with some of the smear campaign. My philosophy is that's it's best not to tip your hand before the conclusion of the game. If you know what I mean.

Anonymous said...

Yes I think I get what you mean. :o)

WRU said...

We have already shown the specifics and dates to this smear campaign, no need to repeat ourselves.

We know who did it and how they did it.

What is ridiculous the main guy behind the lies for 2006 even admitted he lied and made up all of it(which we proved he lied) but his former followers won't believe him.

Colonel Mustard called and he said get a clue!

Anonymous said...

OK, I have a couple of funnies for you.

1. Percocet says 411 is not a hate site. Bwah!

2. Director Sandy says she had no idea what hate sites were until someone PM'd her. Bwah, again!

I think it's called CYA (CoverYourAss) since they seem to be trying to do a little housecleaning at KCE. Unfortunately, four year's worth of piled up shit takes a lot of effort to clean.
The 411 crowd (of about 5, if that) are even stupider than usual today. They just cannot even entertain the possibility that so much of the crap they've heard about Clay is unsubstantiated and untrue. Oh, wait. Some of them helped create those untrue stories and rumors, so never mind. Why would they admit it? They're sociopaths with evil little minds and incurable delusion.

Anonymous said...

OMG, I clicked on the wrong link today and ended up on the KCE.. Why do they Hide thier Clay HATE threads as "Kelly is the greatest" threads and then Bash him consistantly?

my GOD what I saw was unbelievable hate bashing. ANd Kelly fans had 40 pages of HAte on him( and one was over 100 pages). What the hell gives them the right to think that's normal? I never in my life have seen Clay fans Bash Kelly like that. Thier Messageboards have kelly threads for fans and they are ...Fans, they say nice stuff. Karma will turn on them, it shocked me soo much I couldn't stand to look at Kelly C. anymore.

Anonymous said...

looks like the PULSE music board has had enough of the fan wars too, they posted this :

"Due to continuing problems with AI fan wars in the following threads (Carrie, Kelly, Clay) we're instituting a special rule in these threads. Should the fan war spread to other threads, they will be included as well.

Here's how it goes, get a warning for trolling or personal attacks in the Carrie, Kelly or Clay thread and in addition to your warning you will receive a one week time out from all AI threads. Meaning you are not allowed to post in any of the album threads, single threads, the new season thread in the lounge, opinion threads and polls relating to AI, etc. You are also not allowed to circumvent this rule by posting about AI or its contestants in a more general thread like the Hot 100 thread or the Billboard 200 thread....."(there is more but It was rules and stuff)

Anonymous said...

So the yellow-toothed old biddy Director Sandy never knew what a hate site was before? Hasn't she been reading KCE? She's a total psychotic who encourages her minions to commit hate crimes against Clay. She even encourages teens to commit acts of vandalism by smashing his CD's in stores so they can't be sold. I hope this beyotch doesn't think she's immune to prosecution just because she's Canadian. The arms of the internet laws have no borders.

Got that, Sandy, honey? We've got lots of your posts over the years nicely screencapped to show a pattern of behavior, just in case the lawyers request it. They already requested background info on you months ago, along with that of almost a dozen or more of your cohorts in crime. We were glad to oblige.

BTW, free speech does not include maligning or defaming someone or trying to prevent that person from earning a living. Even on the internet. Also, when you commit a crime, and JP has admitted to a criminal conspiracy, you lose your rights as a private citizen. Even in Ottawa. Pass it along to your crew of psychos.

nighthawk said...

Sorry I didn't put through the last couple of comments. I understand the anger that so many feel, but I don't want to see us descend down to their level of attacks, ugliness, and hatred(and those comments are pretty close to that).

I believe our strength is not in becoming similar to them in that ugliness, but in shedding light on their behaviors, actions, and lies in a well-supported, reasoned, and factual way. And we, unlike them, DO have the facts to support what we know to be true. They have nothing but rumors, lies, obfuscation, and extrapolation. We have documentation and clear evidence. They only have a lot of bad energy and wishful thinking.

So, like I said ... while I understand the anger and disgust, I'm relectant to let that be expressed in any greater detail or become the sole focus. We're better than that.

sameoldstuff said...

FYI - The idiots over at 411 are up to their usual tricks. They posted the comment from canadiangal at the ofc that the "scandal contest" was snark (someday I hope they get some brighter mods over there, and that's all I'll say about that). THEN someone sent it to Queerty, so now it's posted at that site with a link back to 411. I know I saw your blog linked to Queerty for about a week a couple of weeks ago, so I'm sure this will just validate what you said about the haters for queerty's regular readers.

Also, some dumb RCA intern put through a subtle troll-post at Clay's myspace which 411 has now screencapped as a blog and they are currently wondering who they can send it to. Probably PH. Same old, same old from them. Same old agenda. Same old fabrications. Same old methods.

The good thing is that now everyone knows exactly who they are and that their attempts to defame Clay are with malice and forethought (an important distinction for slander and libel suits involving public figures). Anyone with a grain of intelligence can read their crap and see that and see what mental cases they are, so no worries, I guess.

Anonymous said...

Well if the morons at 411 had bothered to look at the myspace dude's "friends", they would have seen that he posted that same shit on every celebrities site. Idiots. LOL

Anonymous said...

Anon at 8:06pm
The wackos at 411 don't have enough brains between the whole group to check something that simple. They were discussing sending that to the NE. I hope they do. By now, they are known as total wack jobs, so the NE staff can get a good laugh at their expense, just like the President's council did.

Anonymous said...

They sure do love them some wanna-be psycho-stalker famewhores over there, don't they? Direc .. er, Percocet actually recruited him to post over there, too. She and they are so filled with hate and ugliness it is just pathetic and sad. The fun part will be when, as rumored, Clay's new team takes over pretty soon - they won't know what hit them and I can't wait!

Anonymous said...

Has anyone figured out the connection between justin and sherri yet? ;)

tnmtmama said...

OMG! They're too stupid to see that they are being punked! "Justin" is going to have "Clay" call them for an interview! And these no-brains believe it! They actually think "Clay" is going to do an interview for an obscure hater blog! Cripes, how do they survive day to day being that stupid????

Oh Crap said...

Anon at 1:30, please see that Nighthawk gets those connections.

Anonymous said...

Bwah!! Some paparazzi just posted photos of Clay arriving at LAX LATE last night ... you know, well AFTER the AI show that this "justin" was suposedly "with" Clay at! They are ALL such frickin' evil IDIOTS!!

Oh Crap said...

Where are you seeing that Clay arrived "late" last night?

Anonymous said...

Oh Crap:

It was reported late last night that Clay was already on a plane bound for LA. So Justin Christianson aka Justin Whitaker is full of crapola when he says that he and Clay were at the AI taping yesterday afternoon.

Justin is just another fraud looking to stir the turd. He has already been reported to those who need to know.

Anonymous said...

Clay either arrived at LAX late last night or early this morning. He was NOT at the AI taping yesterday. Justin is a troublemaker who may have ties to another known hater.

Oh Crap said...

I got all the ties put together but wasn't sure about the LAX Arrival. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

That LAX picture was too cool, and right on time. LOL.

rayofhope said...

The claymate411 people must be beautiful and talented people, superior in every way. I imagine with their knowlege of charitable works, they must be very giving as well. When you see the language they use, that tells me they are well educated and very religious. Because of that, they have every right to judge us weaker mortals. We should worship their words of wisdom. We should revisit our priorities.

Who needs family or values or fun in their lives. Who needs to work for a living. Others get away with sitting at the computer all day. We must be doing something wrong. SO OH SUPERIOR ONES LEAD ON. Yea right.

Anonymous said...

Dumbest comment of the day, so far: (the day isn’t over, and we all know they can outdo themselves)

I would feel sorry for the ones still dishing out the support but if they are that blind, they deserve everything that comes to them. I am glad that I went on with life & missed it all, it certainly sounds like it was a well oiled plan.

This is by smiley D. She’s glad she went on with her life, so four years later she is still following every word, appearance, interview, photo, and gossip item about Clay! She speands at least 8 hours a day involved on a Clay Aiken site, even if she wants to pretend she hates him. She didn’t just drink the kool aid, she mixed it, drank it, mixed some more, and is now swimming in it!

Anonymous said...

I think my favorite for the dumbest line is how Clays fans artificially support him by buying his CDs. Uh ... alrighty, then! How stupid! And there are numerous posts at KCE and other idol boards about how those fans buy more than one, but i guess it only matters if it's a Clayfan doing the buying? LOL! Could they BE any more transparent in their aim of trying to destroy his career? Their latest blog/excercise in stupidity is just more proof. What they don't realize is how whacked they appear to ordinary people. And is there no longer any doubt as to who filed the bogus ftc complaint?

Anonymous said...

I think my favorite for the dumbest line is how Clays fans artificially support him by buying his CDs.

I got one:

" The fraud squad dislikes things about Clay for all the right reason so at least he should be able to respect that."

Umm OK if you say so. What?

Anonymous said...

I got one:

" The fraud squad dislikes things about Clay for all the right reason so at least he should be able to respect that."

Oh that gets my vote! WYF? what does that mean exactly? I bet they think they're doing him a favor.
This is funny please I need to see more of thier idiocy.

Anonymous said...

" The fraud squad dislikes things about Clay for all the right reason so at least he should be able to respect that."

Isn't it funny that these people who hate Clay are concerned that he respect them? As if anyone could respect a bunch of hags who's only reason to exist is to hate a guy they don't know and never will.

Anonymous said...

Its not just hate. I think they are like zealots with a cause. Their cause is trying to prove to everybody that Clay is gay because they think that then will make people not like him anymore. Of course he's not gay and all of the JP garbage is , well, garbage and lies, but they can't let go of it because they thought they saw a chance to destroy clay by making people think he was gay. Does that make any sense? Its totally homophobic on their part to use the gay card to try to drum up hate and charges of "fraud'. WTF? Did they think he was going to sleep with them? I mean they are so over the top with that NEED for him to be gay that it is very striking and a casual person coming across their blog or linking to it would probably have a good belly laugh in seeing how crazy and fanatical they are about that, like they can hardly make two posts withiout focusing on 'teh gay'. It's just way bizarre. Just like they are.

Anonymous said...

It's just way bizarre. Just like they are.


Anonymous said...

Have any of you been to the Swamp lately? I've been picking it up over at Chexxxy's. Some of those morons are defending PaulASS as a good person who outed Clay and said nasty things about him to try to get Clay to stop trolling the internet and having unprotected sex. They said that sometimes you have to do bad things to get someone to wise up.

They are delusional and just plain stupid. The only truthful thing PaulASS has said all year, other than that he is ex-military and gay, is that it was all a hoax. Clay is not gay, has never met PaulASS nor communicated with him EVER, and does not troll the internet. As we all know it's a smear campaign and I can't wait until the culprits themselves are completely outed.

Anonymous said...

Those morons make it up as the go, don't worry about it. They are the ones who have been lunatics. Their only purpose now is for laughs. They jumped the shark awhile ago.

rayofhope said...

Probably the most bizarre aspect of all of this is how the extremists from kelly clarkson express and others continue to play the "gay" card as if it would cause the fans to leave Clay. Over the years it has become painfully obvious that this is their fear projected onto Clay's fans.

Anonymous said...

Woodle is over there in one of her many disguises saying that freedom of speech does not have to be based on fact. That's how she rationalizes spreading her filth all over the internet. She's been trying to destroy Clay's career since AI2 ended.

She is a total braggart with little to brag about. A mentally deranged loon; completely without conscience.

Anonymous said...

I was re-reading some of my old saved KCE threads yesterday and your blog is right about some of the Guarini fans. Some of them came over to KCE and tried to stir the turd by pretending to be Clayfans criticizing Kelly. That and planting false stores. They were trying to turn the Kelly and Clay fans against each other. In the thread I'd saved they were caught, but I wonder how many times they were not caught? And I think they still have the Clay-hate going on in some parts of the House. Just something to think about I guess. Fanwars suck.

Anonymous said...

Geesh. Stoopid idiots over at 411 are still saying that blog that Clay wrote at 5:30 right before he went to GMA was written at 2:30. Dolts. When it's 2:30 Pacific time, it's 5:30 Eastern time. It's called a time difference, which means east coast times are 3 hours ahead of west coast times. Get that GED, it might make a difference in your life. ;) Not that it's a big deal but of course they try to make it one. *rolls eyes*

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
nighthawk said...

Sorry, but I decided to delete the last two comments, at least for now. If it weren't so late and I weren't on the road as usual (i.e., if I were thinking a little bit clearer), I might not have put them through to begin with. I'll think about it in the morning and might bring them back then.

tnmtmama said...

Wow, I just saw an item on the Fox News about a fake advertisement for Obama that features Hilary Clinton. The ad looks so real that both parties have disclaimed it. Can you imagine that? A fake video so real that national candidates have to tell people that it is fake? Who would ever imagine such a thing? OMG, are they really trying to tell us that making fake video and images is so easy that you can do it at home??? Who would ever be fooled by that?

Well, maybe people who are gullible enough to believe anything they see on the internet or in tabloids. After all, it takes some brains to be a little bit skeptical. Yes, I agree with 9:45pm, the GED might help. The definition of "truth" is that it is fact, not lies repeated often.

pensive said...

I think what makes me so sad about all of this is the cruelty. Somehow, behind computer screens, the people who attack others forget they are attacking a real person with feelings, hopes, desires, fears, and all the other things that go into the human experience. They've lost their own humanity and compassion. They think that they're are being clever and funny and self-righteous, but they are really losing a part of their own humanity as they attack others. They lie and cheat and try to ruin lives and laugh about it while they do it. What an ugly black mark to put on one's soul. Hope none of them pretend to be religious because there's not a legitimate religion on the planet that would condone their actions. It's just very, very sad.

Anonymous said...

I think Pensive has truly said it all. The whole "hater" situation is incredibly sad. I have a difficult time grasping the cruelty of it all as well. That kind of rage and hatred aimed at a human being they have never met makes no sense at all. He is a pspstar-not the pope, not the president, not a senator, or prime minister. These lunatics are so out of touch with reality, it scares me sometimes. I thank God that Clay has good security around him. I think the haters will eventually be eaten alive by their own venom and stupidity. For all their nasty little efforts, Clay still stands tall. He is determined to have his career on his own terms. He continues to do fine work with Unicef,BAF, and the Presidential Committee. I am proud of how he has handled all of this. He is a star in every sense of the word.

nighthawk said...

Anonymous from last night that I didn't put through -- I agree with "what you heard." I'm holding onto your comment and may put it through at a later time. We'll see what happens. As a matter of principle I try to avoid giving certain needy famewhores the attention they crave, if you know what I mean. But I "heard" the same thing in that rather lengthy fabrication.

I'll be at home this weekend so will make an attempt to finish up the next blog.

Anonymous said...

Nighthawk I can hardly wait to read your new blog. I hope you can get it up this weekend.

I would love to know what you and Anonymous from last night "heard". I hope it was something positive for Clay...he's had enough negatives from the lowlifes to last a lifetime.

I wish with all my heart the creeps would be exposed for everything they have done to Clay and his fans.

Anonymous said...

Yes Nighthawk, I look forward to the next. Clay no doubt is one of the strongest people in show business.

nighthawk said...

I've put off posting a new blog for a couple of days because I didn't want to "compete" with the charity-based Google alerts out there right now. (It's a concern because I've ended up on Google alerts a couple of times, so feel a need to be careful with both my timing and my words.) At the moment I think it best to focus on the good being done by BAF, and also Six Degrees. As soon as those alerts die down a little, I'll post.

Anonymous said...

Love ya', nighthawk! Is the new blog ready?

nighthawk said...


I have been SOOOO busy!!! Guess I'd better get down to business, huh?


OneIdolWoman said...


Like everyone else, I am eagerly awaiting your next installment, which will be well worth the wait, I'm sure. Paraphrasing Clay, it takes time to write factual and documented (quality) commentary. Because, like practically all of Clay's fans, you have a rich, fulfilling, probably hectic, and satisfying life filled with family, friends and loved ones, you have only so much time you can devote to Clay. It's called perspective.

For me, Clay is like a reward. Only after I meet my real world obligations, can I devote some "spare" time to indulging in things Clay.

In strong contrast to all this are the 411 fools who seem to have unlimited spare time to inflict harm. From a purely practical standpoint, when do the haters spend time with family and friends? When do they do their jobs at work, or go on business trips or family vacations? When do they prepare meals or clean their houses or do yard work? When do they exercise? When do they live their lives?

Of course, what the haters publish is trash and slime. Can't take a whole lot of time to crank out crap. Maybe a one-dimensional / obsessed life, with no family or friends, or with totally disfunctional relationships or with a menial job isn't a reality worth living. So, the haters fill the void with fantasy / lies, and especially their fantasy of self-importance. Sorry lot indeed!

Long way of saying that it's a good thing that we have to wait for your commentaries. Better to read documented facts brought together by a healthy, and sometimes harried, individual who is living life to its fullest than to read rubbish churned out 24/7 by sick, obsessive minds.

Anonymous said...

I wish the therapist who wrote this article could treat the 411 gang.

Society's compassion trampled by herd mentality

We were walking in Washington, D.C., at rush hour surrounded by total gridlock.

The scene was mayhem - horns blaring, people shouting irately, engines revving abrasively. Then a courier on a bicycle stopped to survey the sorry spectacle.

Shaking his head, he looked our way and sadly concluded, "We all hate each other." Nobody laughed.

Hate may seem too strong a term, yet many Americans harbor a palpable dislike for people in general. While most of us are affable on a person-to-person basis, when interacting with the amorphous "them," we are increasingly bitter, contentious and unforgiving.

Here are some of the main features of our rancorous herd mentality:

Buy a link hereNo Benefit of the Doubt: When we hear a derogatory accusation about a person, group or organization, many of us immediately presume they are guilty, rather than affording them a presumption of innocence, as our legal system requires. Psychological lynch mobs are alive and well in America.

Tyrannical Opinions: Once we label an individual or entity as "bad," many of us discount any evidence to the contrary. Psychologists call this "confirmation bias" - the tendency to emphasize information that supports one's opinion while ignoring facts or experiences that challenge or refute it.

No Pity: Despite touting America as a nation of Judeo-Christian principles, our public discourse and interactions are increasingly bereft of forgiveness or mercy. If you make a mistake, even an honest one, expect to be vilified by those who are adept at ignoring their own imperfections while focusing intensely on those of others.

Piling On: As Don Henley sang in his tune "Dirty Laundry," once somebody is bleeding emotionally, there are plenty of shark-like personalities moving in for the kill. This "kick 'em while they're down" attitude is evident in vitriolic talk shows, attack blogs, office gossip, political feeding frenzies and TV shows that mock and humiliate (e.g., "American Idol").

Collectively, our cultural icons are not the peacemakers, those who are meek, who compassionately forgive and extend the hand of inclusion. Instead, we predominantly glorify those who triumph with rude bravado, heart-carving condemnations and brute psychological force.

There are no winners in this mental tar and feathering. While some lose more than others, by poisoning the well of our collective social consciousness, we all forfeit a sense of community, good will and trust.

Whatever we may claim about our nation's moral values, too many choose malice and condemnation, not compassion, in dealing with "them." And those who do practice humility, kindness and mercy often discover what many persons of good will have learned the hard way:

There are plenty of people willing to crucify you.

Philip Chard is a psychotherapist, author and trainer. Names used in this column are changed to honor client confidentiality. Call (262) 547-3986, e-mail, or visit

Anonymous said...

Nighthawk what happened to your next blog?

Has this site been abandoned?

nighthawk said...

No, it's not been abandoned. ;)

I have just had some pressing real-life issues and have been traveling and away from home a lot.

I'm also trying to decide the best way to approach the next blog, and have changed my mind a couple of times, both with respect to content and to approach. As time has gone by, I've become increasingly bored with the vile little pea-brains over at 411. They are so filled with transparent hate, nastiness, and lies that it's almost embarrassing ...for them. I keep being reminded of that old movie from, I think the 1950s, or maybe the 1960s .. "The Snake Pit."

The thing is, is that they are obviously, obsessively, nuts, but they bluster and bravado and convince themselves that they are sane. Dunno. There is just a part of me that is thinking they don't deserve the attention, you know?

But the history of it all still fascinates me in a kind of clinical way. For example, the study of Groucho's descent into madness over at KCE is pretty intriguing. Watching how the main mover-shakers over at KCE morphed into these nasty, malicious, little creeps is also interesting.

I guess what I'm saying is that to write the next blog I have to immerse myself in their energy for a while, and I just haven't felt like getting that dirty lately. I might post something else in the interim though. We'll see.

Thanks for noticing, though. :) One of these days you'll be completely surprised and find a new blog waiting for you

Anonymous said...

Nighthawk said:

"The thing is, is that they are obviously, obsessively, nuts, but they bluster and bravado and convince themselves that they are sane. Dunno. There is just a part of me that is thinking they don't deserve the attention, you know?"

I do know what you mean. It is mind boggling the things those people (if you can call them that) say and think it's the truth. They really are insane. I've heard that people that are losing their minds can't see it as it's happening and by the time they reach
that state it's too late. I think that is what happened to Groucho and the KCE mods. They are already full blooded lunatics and can't even see it.

Nighthawk said:

"I guess what I'm saying is that to write the next blog I have to immerse myself in their energy for a while, and I just haven't felt like getting that dirty lately."

That sounds painful and scary to have to immerse yourself in their energy. I wouldn't want to go there.

Speaking of getting the time of the IT when I went to the KCE for the first time to see what they were saying about Clay, I honestly felt so dirty when I read what they were saying about him that I felt like my mind needed a good washing. Those people are disgusting and sick.

I do love reading your blogs and keep hoping someday someone will read them that can and will expose the psychos to the public, for all the vile, ugly things they have done and are still doing to Clay.

Do you know how widely read this site is? I just wish everybody could read it.

nighthawk said...

"Do you know how widely read this site is? I just wish everybody could read it."

Well, when I have a newer blog, I'll get anywhere from several hundred to several thousand a day, depending on whether or not Google picked it up or whether or not it was linked at any other major sites. Even now, every few days, someone will link one of the older blogs in a comment section somewhere and I'll have quite a few visitors. Lately it's only been around 2-300/day, but then again, I haven't put a new blog up in quite some time.

I guess that's another reason I'm being fairly cautious about a new blog right now. The last couple new ones HAVE ended up as Google alerts, and I'm trying to be somewhat strategic. I don't want to distract from Clay's UNICEF/Afghanistan news right now, and just prior to that was some good coverage from the BAF gala.

It's very tempting, though, when I read some of the vicious lies they're spreading over at 411 to just react. But I won't. Another way of looking at it is to see them as just getting more desperate and hysterical since they haven't had the effect on Clay's life and career they were striving for, and digging themselves deeper and deeper into that cesspool of hate and lies they rather delusionally call "the truth."

I do sometimes worry that some other psycho, if not one of them, will read what they say and try to harm Clay as a result, and that's what bothers me the most, I think. In fact it scares me. There are some crazy people out there, and not only are they perfect examples of that, but I worry that their words may feed that... that the sheer volume of hatred there will push someone over the edge. I surely do hope that Clay's lawyers and security are very aware of who is saying what over on that site.

Anonymous said...

Nighthawk, I am one who is waiting for a new blog, but I do understand what you ae saying about swimming in the cesspool of the 411 crazies. They keep saying insane things about proving they are wrong, then delete every post that does exactly that. They attack anyone who brings the truth, and then say they have inside information that proves they are right.

The problem for them is that the inside information is from the voices inside their heads. When you ask them to prove their inside informants are real, they do the old "I can't tell you who or then I'd have to kill you" routine. Never a name, never any proof, just ranting and more insane lies.

gaymarie said...

NightHawk, we are so ready for your next blog. I check your site several times a day..... are you ready yet?

nighthawk said...

Most likely this coming weekend when life finally slows down a bit....

gaymarie said...

Just tapping my foot here... weekend, come and!

gaymarie said...

Just tap tap tapping that foot of mine.... weekend has come and! Been wayyyy too long for your fantastic series!

Anonymous said...

You know, no one can take those idiots at 411 seriously. They are so incredibly dumb. They recently posted a blog making fun of Clay's interview with Yahoo music, insisting that Clay didn't know what he was talking about when he said Afghanistan was part of South Asia, and insisting it was in the Middle East. Everyone is congratulating the blogger on the wonderful and insightful blog. Bwah!

What they don't realize is how stupid that makes THEM! Guess someone ought to tell the World Bank that the fools at 411 know more about the world than they do, because check out what South Asian country is prominently featured in the World Bank's focus on South Asia?? MORONS!! As with all their other "truths," 411's statements are false. LOL,,pagePK:158889~piPK:146815~theSitePK:223547,00.html

Anonymous said...

Sorry that link above is so long. You have to highlight and scroll to the right to get the whole thing to copy and paste. Sorry I don't know how to make pretty links.

Anonymous said...

NEW BLOG NEW BLOG NEW BLOG NEW BLOG...........................


Anonymous said...

What happened to Nighthawk?

It's been over two months since we have had a new blog.

celebhith said...

You're worth the wait, nighthawk. . . I know you'll have some wonderful insights and info for us all! Wait a minute - is your "soon" the same as Clay's??? Lord, I hope not! '-)

gaymarie said...

NightHawk? Have you left town AND your blog for good? *g*

Anonymous said...

Still tapping my foot........

Anonymous said...

Nighthawk, have you given up blogging? I hope not, yours is one of the most interesting and intelligent out there.

rwalsh said...

Nighthawk, where are you? I sure want to hear more from you. I hope you're well, and just busy right now. Please let us know when we can expect to see you again.